The Key to Mormonism

[_Cylon]

Hey Nightlion It sounds like you must be a pretty knowledgeable guy. I did make mistakes in my writing. I will probably make more. What are your views on the current LDS Church?

Here's a post where Nightlion gives his story, so he doesn't have to go into it again: http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24541&p=603916#p605071.

Just a question for you? I have noticed that some people that leave the church lose alll faith in God. Is that true of you or other people on Mormom Discussions. What is the belief system of people here? These are questions for everyone, just wondering?

Well, first off, I haven't left the church. I'm still active, still go to church most Sundays and fulfill my calling. My faith crisis is still pretty recent, it's just in the last 3 or 4 months that I lost my belief in the church. As such my current belief system is sort of in flux, but if I'm completely honest, I'd have to say I've lost faith in God, too. My faith in God was based in my testimony about the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, so when those went out the window, there wasn't much left. That's a simplification, and there's more to it than that, but it's a good summary. I don't reject the possibility that God exists, but I don't see much evidence for his existence, and if he does exist, he doesn't seem to be all that concerned about what we believe, given the thousands of different religions and belief structures that have popped up over the course of human history.

If you want to discuss these ideas further, though, it might be best to start another thread.

[_Tobin]

Hi Shixon1,

I too have wandered a bit. I was an ex-mormon/atheist for about 10 years, but several years ago I had what I'll describe as an encounter with God. That changed my perspective on Mormonism, God, and religion in general. I know there is a God and that God loves us. Everything else is up for discussion. Now, I'm a reasonable person (many here wouldn't agree), so I'm willing to discuss any well thought out ideas or doctrines you wish.

As for my stance on the LDS Church. I also do not believe it is the Kingdom of God. That is a different animal entirely. I do believe the LDS Church teaches a lot of good things and a lot of bad things like many churches do. I also believe Mormonism can lead you to God and the Kingdom of God if you'll believe, seek, and do as the Lord asks.

Tobin

[_Nightlion]

snooze, huh? wuba, wuba, wuba, ahem, cough, what?
Paul? You putting me on?

How can you compare this fella to me? He got corrected on his first shot through the knot hole.

The members of the board have shown you and your ravings a fair amount of respect, but you can't seem to pass on the favor.
Way to be a dick, Nightlion.

Oh, well, that explains a lot. Here comes a clear potential for Zion and I dick it up. All hope is now lost with no possibility that two might gather together in the name of the Lord and to seek to bring forth and establish Zion. You probably would not want that anyways, eh?

[_Nightlion]

Hey Nightlion It sounds like you must be a pretty knowledgeable guy. I did make mistakes in my writing. I will probably make more. What are your views on the current LDS Church?

I was only teasing because Uncle Dale was giving you the business. Mostly your paper made my heart to soar like a hawk. There is going to be a coming together of all nations that have part in Zion. We shall see what the Lord will make of it. Taking it lightly is not an option however. That is why we are where we are today. I can be counted on to bring the hammer down on what I determine to be what's what. With enough irons in the fire and hammers at hand Zion will be forged in the hearts of those unto whom the Lord has given it. Perhaps what the Lord has in mind is to see some real passion in our hearts proven not to be denied or thrown off as opposed to the utter indifference that has prevailed. Imagine his offense taken since he so graciously parted the veil and to give a gift with abundant treasures that was not received.

[_Shixon1]

I agree with you about Zion but I believe the church will fall first. Here is a part of an e-mail I wrote to a friend that shows my concern with the church.
[It was good to get your e-mail. I would've wrote back sooner but we just had a new baby boy join our family. I now have a girl and two boys. I can not believe I am a parent of three. I still feel like a kid.
We both agree that the church uses the concept of Eternal Families to keep members faithful. I seen a video of you in front of the church office building talking about the church. At the end of the video the question is asked, " how much will you give to the church?" or something like that. Faithful members might say they would give their lives for the church if they had to. It is one thing if the church just affects the lives of its members. One of my main concerns is that members are actually giving up their salvation by following the church.
I know you probably know more than me about church history because of your time as a seminary teacher. I just want to share with you the problems that I see with the church. One thing members do not realize is that the church today is mainly the result of members that lived in Nauvoo. In fact some people say that Brigham Young is the founder of the LDS church because he reorganized things and made all members get rebabptized when they came to Salt Lake City. There was a lot of other Mormon settlements that did not go to Salt Lake City and did not accept some of the new doctrines that the Salt Lake church adopted. I have talked to Joseph Smith, a great,great,great grandson of Joseph Smith Jr. He is a member of another Mormon movement church. It is interesting to see the differences between his church's doctrines and the doctrines of the LDS church. He also believes in the revelations contained in the Book of Commandments. I do not think that Joseph Smith Jr. realized what he was writing in the Book of Commandments.
One of the things that I see happening from reading the scriptures is the fall of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I believe God will use the fall of the church to show his power to the world in fulfilling the revelations contained in the scriptures.

D&C 133:3 For he shall make bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of their God.
In D&C 1:2&3 it says

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.
3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.
In Seminary I was taught that this scripture was talking to people that did not repent of their sins. However, I believe that it is talking to the church that rebelled against God back in the early days of the church. I believe that members will be pierced by much sorrow when they realize that they are actually following Satan.
In D&C 76:28-37 it says,
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
In verse 35 you will notice that it says having crucified him unto themselves. When members go to the temple and partake of the tokens of the priesthood they are actually crucifying Christ unto themselves. It is interesting that the tokens are given on the right hand and that Revelations 13:16 says that the mark of the beast was received on the right hand. In the temple endowment it says that all should receive it. When Satan is asked,"What are those robes and aprons that you wear? He responds that they represent my power and priesthoods. I wonder if Satan was portrayed wearing robes of white and a green apron if members would realize who they are following. It is also Satan that tells Adam to hide his nakedness with the fig leaves(apron).
One of the original three fold mission of the church was to prepare the world for the second Coming of Jesus Christ. Christians have been looking forward to the day that Christ comes again. The church was originally suppose to be a light in the world in preparing for that day. Now the church is concerned with getting power and gain, both money and members. It is also seeking to become popular in the eyes of the world instead of warning the world of the judgments of God that are to come. 1 Nephi 22:23 warns of this,
23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.
Most members of the church are the best people in the world. I love them with all of my heart. It is scriptures like 2 Nephi 28:21 that scares me for the sake of members.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
From even the earliest of life members are taught to put their trust in the leaders of the church. There are so many scriptures that warn against that. I have wondered how Satan would've had power to lead away a third of the hosts of Heaven in the pre-existence. I have come to the conclusion that he could've used an organization just like the church. Get men to give up their agency to go to the temple and by doing so receive the promise of an eternal family. You must pay tithing, sustain church leaders, pay child support, and many other things that members are forced to do in order to go to the temple and get exaltation

[_Nightlion]

I believe that the LDS Church is already fallen. It is done. The day of the Gentile is over. The Apocalrock is that ensign lifted up in the eyes of all nations to convince them of the salvation of their God. It is very interesting that the Mormons were brought here precisely to where this ensign is and it was hidden from them attesting to the blind arrogance that caused them to stumble and fall into the dust of apostasy.
Abomination has reigned from the beginning as the Church repudiated Zion and never sought to bring forth and establish it by faith or knowledge not even caring enough to seek out how it must be done. And the Lord has decreed that abomination shall not reign.

D&C 29: 21
21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.

Nothing is more abominable than for pretense to lift up in arrogance to take control of sacred things and bring them down into ruin. Gordon B Hinckley was the epitome of this manner of arrogance. That man never once taught the gospel in his long career as an LDS leader. No man among them today teaches the gospel as commanded by Jesus Christ. They teach after the image and likeness of their own god which is in the image and likeness of the world.


D&C 1: 16
16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth fold and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

Here is a picture of the fall of the Church which commits whoredoms with the Great Whore of all the earth.
It is found on a mountain side just North of Salt Lake City opposite from The Apocalrock showing that the judgment of The Apocalrock is visited upon the LDS Church as it is fallen in the dust. There is no crown as the top of the head has been eaten away. Worse than what Isaiah spoke in his first chapter.

The whore sits a queen holding back all nations both the fallen priesthood and the kings of the earth commit fornication with her. See the king who is taking knee in front showing his nakedness.

This is a sign of the times and purposefully part of a Strange Act the Lord has prepared to set before the eyes of all nations.
1 Ne. 22: 14
14 ...And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.


I can ease you into the initiation of The Apocalrock if you happen to live near SLC. Call my sig.

[_huckelberry]

Blixa, are you able to publish the correspondence from his Satanic majesties secret service? Is Beck the one we are to expect?

Ha!

Actually, I expect The Son of the Morning to have a lot more style and panache. His emissaries will surely be better dressed.

Your wisdom here appears definitive. I will return to the theory that Beck is fritters.

[_Uncle Dale]

I agree with you about Zion but I believe the church will fall first.
...

The Church cannot fall, as it did in previous dispensations -- as it
did amongst the Nephites. For we are now in the seventh and final
dispensation, and in this last stage of the plan of salvation the
priesthood will not be taken from the earth. Neither will the fulness
of the Gospel be hidden by the Great and Abominable Church.

In this final, culminating dispensation, Eloheim will not allow the
Living Prophet to lead The Church astray. Therefore there can
be no new great apostasy, as there was in days gone by.

The only negative possibility is -- that the Living Prophet might
somehow transgress his calling. In which case he will always
retain a sufficient presence of the Holy Ghost, to enable him to
choose a successor worthy of ordination to the office of prophet,
seer, revelator and translator.

There is one transitory phenomenon that the Saints of the One
True Church should be vigilant to detect, however. There may
come a day when the Living Prophet can no longer function as
a seer and revelator -- not through any particular transgression,
but simply because of old age or some debilitating trauma. *

In such an instance, the Church MAY APPEAR to have been led
astray, but any such unfortunate, ungodly episode will be brief
and quickly corrected by Divine intervention.

(or so I was told)

UD

------------------
* read: Pres. G. A. S.
* cf: D. H. S., son of Pres. J. S., Jr.

[_Shixon1]

Now, I'm a reasonable person (many here wouldn't agree), so I'm willing to discuss any well thought out ideas or doctrines you wish.

As for my stance on the LDS Church. I also do not believe it is the Kingdom of God. That is a different animal entirely. I do believe the LDS Church teaches a lot of good things and a lot of bad things like many churches do. I also believe Mormonism can lead you to God and the Kingdom of God if you'll believe, seek, and do as the Lord asks.

Tobin

[/quote]You sound pretty reasonable to me I look forward to getting to know you!

[_Shixon1]

I was looking last night, I could not find anywhere where it said the church could not fall. The scriptures do say that if the generation didn't harden thier hearts God would establish his church amoung them.
The LDS church is only one of the many churches that arose from the restoration of the gospel. I do think that the church will fall and the whole world will see it.
53 And for this cause have I said: If this generation aharden not their hearts, I will establish my bchurch among them.

54 Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;

55 Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not afear, for such shall binherit the ckingdom of heaven.

56 But it is they who do not afear me, neither keep my commandments but build up bchurches unto themselves to get cgain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center.

57 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the aSon of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own breceived me not.

I agree with you about Zion but I believe the church will fall first.
...

The Church cannot fall, as it did in previous dispensations -- as it
did amongst the Nephites. For we are now in the seventh and final
dispensation, and in this last stage of the plan of salvation the
priesthood will not be taken from the earth.
------------------
* read: Pres. G. A. S.
* cf: D. H. S., son of Pres. J. S., Jr.