Themis wrote: I think most ex-mos do see it even if they don't stay with some other christian group. Christianity is only harder to falsify then Mormonism.
But Christianity is falsifiable and as time goes on more and more evidence is coming forth
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
Themis wrote: I think most ex-mos do see it even if they don't stay with some other christian group. Christianity is only harder to falsify then Mormonism.
But Christianity is falsifiable and as time goes on more and more evidence is coming forth
I agree. I only said it was harder to falsify, not that it couldn't be.
palerobber wrote: where people believe in magic, no claims are ever truly falsifiable.
i don't think Mormonism is at any disadvantage to Scientology on this account.
Mormonism is certainly at a disadvantage. Joseph made claims that can be verified like the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc. These claims are vital to his over all claims to be a prophet, etc.
palerobber wrote: where people believe in magic, no claims are ever truly falsifiable.
i don't think Mormonism is at any disadvantage to Scientology on this account.
Mormonism is certainly at a disadvantage. Joseph made claims that can be verified like the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc. These claims are vital to his over all claims to be a prophet, etc.
certainly the Book of Mormon can be disproven to the satisfaction of a rational naturalist, just as many Bible stories can be (age of earth, origin of species, Jesus's miracles, etc). but again, where people put magic on equal footing with real evidence (hint: almost everywhere in the world) literally any belief can be rationalized no matter how obviously false it is.
palerobber wrote: certainly the Book of Mormon can be disproven to the satisfaction of a rational naturalist, just as many Bible stories can be (age of earth, origin of species, Jesus's miracles, etc). but again, where people put magic on equal footing with real evidence (hint: almost everywhere in the world) literally any belief can be rationalized no matter how obviously false it is.
I know people can rationalize anything, but then the church's problem is that many in the church like myself know why that is wrong. I think there are a few more around the world who won't rationalize anything. This is probably why so many Christians no longer take everything from the Bible so literally.
palerobber wrote: certainly the Book of Mormon can be disproven to the satisfaction of a rational naturalist, just as many Bible stories can be (age of earth, origin of species, Jesus's miracles, etc). but again, where people put magic on equal footing with real evidence (hint: almost everywhere in the world) literally any belief can be rationalized no matter how obviously false it is.
This is true for the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Abraham is a totally different case. The issue isn't about what the Book of Abraham text claims. The problem is we have the source material for the Book of Abraham. It doesn't match at all. The Book of Mormon survives only because we don't have the original golden plates.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
Mormonism seems to have passed the point of the plausible and into the realm of alchemy and study of the "humors."
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Bob Loblaw wrote:Mormonism seems to have passed the point of the plausible and into the realm of alchemy and study of the "humors."
I think for most of the world it always was that way.
I agree with Lord Helmet that the Book of Abraham is a much easier target for critics than the Book of Mormon. I will candidly admit that I'm still not sure how Joseph wrote it (and I believe I've read all the theories but I don't find any of them particularly convincing). I definitely believe that the Book of Mormon is not what it claims to be, but I am still amazed that Joseph could write something that complex at such a young age. People do amazing things sometimes. Motzart was composing at 4.
I am also inclined to agree with pale robber. People will rationalize away just about any evidence to maintain a religious belief (or an ideology). I was amazed to see on this board that people were actually arguing against the notion that homosexuality is genetic. I am simply stunned that anyone under 70 still believes that. I am also stunned whenever I encounter someone that does not believe in evolution (and sadly there are a LOT of people that think that way in the good'ol USA).