Ann Romney: "We've given all you people need to know."

[_Elphaba]

I suspect that one of the years might show Mitt paying no taxes or some other ridiculously low effective tax rate (as if 14% wasn't bad enough for 2010) like >10% or even >5%.

If he legally reports his income and he has a low rate because tax law taxes income, which is primarily dividends, capital gains and probably some carried interest income, all taxes at % under current tax law what is wrong with that? Why is that bad? Did Romney do someting wrong? What is the theory for taxing capital gains and dividends at 15%? Do you understand that dividends are subject to a double tax?

And it is not likely he paid less than 15% or so unless he had large losses to offset the income. Even Warren Buffet who thinks rates should be higher does not voluntarily pay more than the rate imposed by current tax law.

It's occurred to me that Romney is withholding his taxes now to stir things up, with every intention of revealing them close the election, knowing there is nothing wrong in them whatsoever. It would give him the moral high ground and make it look as if Obama had been hounding an innocent man, and right next to the election, that could give him the needed edge to win.

I have no idea if this is even feasible, particularly because I have no expertise whatsoever on these kinds of finances. But if it is possible, and it is Romney's plan, I think it could work, and therefore, is very clever.

Elphaba

[_Bond James Bond]

It's occurred to me that Romney is withholding his taxes now to stir things up, with every intention of revealing them close the election, knowing there is nothing wrong in them whatsoever. It would give him the moral high ground and make it look as if Obama had been hounding an innocent man, and right next to the election, that could give him the needed edge to win.

I have no idea if this is even feasible, particularly because I have no expertise whatsoever on these kinds of finances. But if it is possible, and it is Romney's plan, I think it could work, and therefore, is very clever.

Elphaba

This might be Romney's thinking but it occurs to me that Romney won't release his tax returns because he doesn't want the electorate to know how filthy rich he is.

[_Kishkumen]

All I know is that I won't be voting Mitt.

His religion has nothing to do with my decision.

[_Jason Bourne]

It doesn't matter what percentage of the whole they pay. I'm so tired of this Right Wing argument. What matters is that they pay an amount proportionate to the amount of wealth they've accumulated. What does it matter if the bottom 1% pay 36% of all taxes if that same 1% owns 75% of all wealth? The bottom 90% may pay a smaller piece of the overall pie, but individually they pay a higher tax rate. Why is this so difficult to understand.

And the fact is Romney doesn't pay as much in taxes as most working Americans. You know perfectly well that the more money you have, the more you can afford tax attorneys who game the system to your advantage. Hiding money off shore is only one popular tactic the Rich use to avoid paying taxes. Romney should be held accountable for that.

Hiding money offshore is illegal and there are many reporting requirments for owning offshore assets. If one files the proper forms it is practically impossible to hide income offshore and not pay tax on it. US Citizens and Residents are taxed on world wide income no matter where earned or invested. Also it is a left wing argument that because somone makes a lot of money they should pay a proportionatly larger amount or "fair share." Who gets to decide what is fair? Right wingers have their mantras as do lefties. I am for comprimise and have pointed that out here before.

Anyway I would be interested in knowing about how Romney and other wealthy people "Hide" money and income offshore.

And in fact many if not most working Americans don't pay much more than a 15 to 20% rate on their income. As for what rate Romney pays clearly if you don't like low rates on cap gains and dividends (which are double taxed) then clearly you will support politcians who want to increase such rates. Romney pays a rate required by current tax law. What is wrong with that?

It it late now and I am busy tomorrow and Sunday but I will try to respond some to your remarks above. You made some fair points about Obama's speeches but there are a few things I have to say.

Also I once again want to point out that I am not arguing at all that Romney should not release more tax information. I am annoyed that he is not. My only point is that I am speculating that there is nothing illegal in them but they will be complicated enough that his enemies will be able to make him look bad no matter what. Even if he pays a low legal rate that will be used against him in my opinion. But hey I could be wrong. He could be a tax cheat.

Also Kevin please stop saying (you have said this twice and it is dishonest) that I think people are too stupid to understand tax law and that I think I need to explain it. I never said that nor have I acted like it. I try to explain some things and I noted that most people who don't spend a lot of time with tax law don't know a lot about it nor would I expect they would. That does not mean I think they are stupid. Stop saying that.

[_Jason Bourne]

How do the wealthy avoid paying taxes? Do most of them actually avoid paying taxes?

They pay a lower margin than people not as well off due to a large % of their income deriving from investments that are taxed differently and due to having sophisticated accounting techniques at their disposal.

Are you sure about this? I have read that most making over a #40k to over a million a year pay an average rate of 31%. Higher earner may see a dip in rates due to cap gains and dividends making up much of their income:

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2012/04/18/ ... -the-rich/

Also could you share with me the what the sophisticated accounting technicques the rich use to get lower rates? I keep hearing this so I would like to know what they are doing. Maybe I can use some of these ideas for some of my wealthy clients who all pay a substantial rate if income tax (most of their income is passthrough income from an S Corp or partnership).

It's the comfortably upper middle-class that get hosed on taxes.

What do you classify as upper middle class and at what rates are they taxed?

[_Jason Bourne]

This might be Romney's thinking but it occurs to me that Romney won't release his tax returns because he doesn't want the electorate to know how filthy rich he is.

I think they already know. It is pretty public that he is worth about a quarter billion. Is that a good reason not to elect someone?

[_Bond James Bond]

I think they already know. It is pretty public that he is worth about a quarter billion. Is that a good reason not to elect someone?

Sure if he earned that money outsourcing American jobs.

[_TymTrav777]

I believe she was referring to the media regarding the above statement. As such, a few years of tax returns have been released. Perhaps when the current inhabitant of the White House releases his college transcripts, passport, college applications (did he apply as a foreign student?), etc., then maybe the Romney's can "consider" releasing more of their tax returns.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think they already know. It is pretty public that he is worth about a quarter billion. Is that a good reason not to elect someone?

Sure if he earned that money outsourcing American jobs.

Did he do that? How much of his income is from sending jobs overseas? Why would that disqualify someone from being president? Is that illegal? Unethical? Does it make sense to do at times? Is it always wrong?

[_DrW]

I think they already know. It is pretty public that he is worth about a quarter billion. Is that a good reason not to elect someone?

Sure if he earned that money outsourcing American jobs.

1. Did he do that?
2. How much of his income is from sending jobs overseas?
3. Why would that disqualify someone from being president?
4. Is that illegal?
5.Unethical?
6. Does it make sense to do at times?
7. Is it always wrong?

1. Yes, he did it.
2. Doesn't matter. (Any penetration completes the offense.)
3. It doesn't disqualify Romney. It just make it less likely - much less likely.
4. No, not under existing law.
5. In the way that Romney did it, it was certainly unethical in that it was grossly unfair to the American Public and those who lost their jobs in particuar.
6. Not if one wishes to be President
7. Only if one wants to be President