Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

[_Albion]

Subgenious, an honest question. Why would you term attacks on Mormon theology "vitriol" but excuse all of Mormonism which in and of itself is an attack on orthodox Christianity is is demonstrated by you on this board?

[_Mittens]

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

Why would you say One God when Joeph Smith Jr Said three gods


Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. John 20:17
or as you would have it written
"For I am not yet ascended to myself...I ascend unto myself...and to myself"

Perhaps you should realize that as a Trinitarian you are not free to cast any stones, otherwise you could easily resolve how you are able to call three as in "trinity" - yet also one?

Sounds like you have Comprehension problem, how many articles have I posted from Evangelic Authorites that say God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct persons that represent the One God. yet you foist a strawman argument their the same person. You should read my posts. However you do prove my OP that the LDS have no inkling what is taught about the Trinity.

[_Mittens]

[quote="LittleNipper"]Man is Triune ---- Body, soul, spirit
God is Triune ---- Christ, Father, Spirit[/quote

I agree

1 thess 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He who calls you is faithful, who also will do

[_moksha]

BillThinks4Himself at Beliefnet had some interesting thoughts on the Creedal Trinity:

The simple faith, evoked in the Gospels, is easily turned into mystical mumbo jumbo by the creeds.

I understand the position of the Trinitarians, that God must be "one" to avoid the issue of Christian polytheism. This was a fairly thorny problem during the first centuries of Christianity. If Jesus is separate from God, he is either co-equal to God or subordinate. Making Jesus co-equal to God would run the risk of tagging the faith as polytheistic. On the other hand, a subordinate view of Jesus ran a different risk, that of presenting a weaker version of the faith. If the first view drove a wedge between Christians and the Jewish community, the second ran the risk of reducing Jesus to the role of prophet, and Christians into a minority group within the Jewish community.

Trinitarianism avoids the dilemma by withdrawing into mysticism. Jesus is God but he's not God II. He's God. I've had earnest Protestants explain it to me as analogous to water in its three forms: liquid, solid and gas. According to them, when God was on Earth, he was known as Jesus. When he dwells in your heart, he's the Holy Ghost. Jesus then becomes the incarnation of God, something like a hand thrust into a pond. The fish see the hand but the hand is not separate from the person reaching into the pond.

The problem is that Trinitarianism doesn't really match the Gospels, where Jesus prays to God, hears from God and even distinguishes between himself and God in a variety of ways. The most obvious example of this is the Baptism of Jesus, where Jesus is standing in the river Jordan while God, in Heaven, proclaims him, "my beloved son, in which I am well pleased," while the Holy Ghost descends upon him. But there are others. Jesus says that blasphemy against him and his father will be forgiven, but not blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. If they're all the same, how can one not be the other? In Gethsemane, Jesus says, "Not my will but thine be done." Again, how can Jesus and God have different wills if, in fact, they're one and the same? On the cross, Jesus not only asks his father to forgive his executioners but complains, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Such a prayer is reduced to absurdity when one tries to argue that Jesus and God are the same. How does God forsake himself? Was Jesus just talking to himself on a bad day?

The Mormon conception of Father and Son, where God is the Eternal Father and Jesus is his Begotten Son, makes Jesus both subordinate to God and co-equal to him. Jesus is subordinate to God, the Father, inasmuch as he obeys the Father and gives glory to him. He is co-equal in the sense that he has overcome all things. It's a fascinating solution, one that leaves other Christians confused or unsatisfied.

.

All right, I'll ask the overwhelming question: What did Jesus have in mind when he referenced God as being separate from himself. I'm' warning you Moksha, don't give me any of that mystical gibberish about this being precisely the conversation Cerberus would have between his three heads.

[Guest]

All right, I'll ask the overwhelming question: What did Jesus have in mind when he referenced God as being separate from himself. I'm' warning you Moksha, don't give me any of that mystical gibberish about this being precisely the conversation Cerberus would have between his three heads.

Jesus was in human form and a man at the time, composed of flesh and blood (though perfect). While Jesus was still a part of the Trinity, He had emptied himself in order to live a life as Adam would have, had Adam not sinned. However, being God, Jesus had to give up His Spirit to die. Man couldn't kill Him.When Jesus was raised from the dead He had not yet ascended back to the Father. When He did, the Holy Spirit was released to come down...

[_Mittens]

Good example of my OP that LDS have no inkling of what the Trinity teaches yet attack a strawman

gdemetz wrote:Mittens...hello?! Of course it's plural! The three marbles I mentioned were plural too, but they are not all of the same silly mystical substance! Mittens, what is it that you don't understand about what I stated?! If you ever here me use the word trinity, trust me, it will definitely not mean the same thing as if you used the term! If I use it, it will not mean the the Godhead is bound together by some mystical glue to make them magically all one as taught in the false apostate creed! It will mean that they are three distinct different personages who make up one Godhead, or God if you want to call it that!



The problem with using the word substance you need to know the Latin meaning for this word


Latin Word List » Substantia


Definition: Substance, essence, means of subsistence, property.

The Latin Word Substantia has many meanings, mainly: substance, essence, means of subsistence, property.

Our Latin Fathers used this term to mean God The Father , Jesus, and the Holy Spirit shared the same property or Family which is God or Godhead. So three separate and distinct persons represent the One God, God head, Substance , Being or Essence. Always singular yet persons is alwasys plural or three.


gdemetz you need to know what your talking about when pontificating

[_gdemetz]

Sub, you have to excuse Mittens. She can't seem to understand the true Mormon doctrine about this. She is determined to tell us what we believe, even though it is NOT what we believe! I even tried to explain it simply to her, but she ran away to another thread!

When ever Mormons state one God, we mean one Godhead. For example, if a boy had three marbles which he worshiped as his god, would that mean that all the marbles were of the same essence or substance? Only if one is ready for the funny farm will they believe that! There are three distinct separate marbles which make up his god! However, the false apostate creed of the trinity teaches exactly that they are of the same substance!

"The word "Trinity" comes from the Latin noun "trinitas" meaning "three are one." THE TRINITY EXPRESSES THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS ONE BEING MADE UP OF THREE DISTINCT PERSONS WHO EXIST IN COEQUAL ESSENCE AND CO ETERNAL COMMUNION AS THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT."

[_LittleNipper]

Sub, you have to excuse Mittens. She can't seem to understand the true Mormon doctrine about this. She is determined to tell us what we believe, even though it is NOT what we believe! I even tried to explain it simply to her, but she ran away to another thread!

When ever Mormons state one God, we mean one Godhead. For example, if a boy had three marbles which he worshiped as his god, would that mean that all the marbles were of the same essence or substance? Only if one is ready for the funny farm will they believe that! There are three distinct separate marbles which make up his god! However, the false apostate creed of the trinity teaches exactly that they are of the same substance!

"The word "Trinity" comes from the Latin noun "trinitas" meaning "three are one." THE TRINITY EXPRESSES THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS ONE BEING MADE UP OF THREE DISTINCT PERSONS WHO EXIST IN COEQUAL ESSENCE AND CO ETERNAL COMMUNION AS THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT."

Three marbles do not commune. Three persons co-exual, eternal, and always existing are a lot different than 3 marbles. Now, if you stated that one marble was made up of three parts, Shape/size, Glass/material, and Color/design --- you might have a better understanding of what Trinitarians believe.

[_subgenius]

I know that feeling especially when Mormons speak concerning the "spirit" mother god Wisdom. She is I assume like Athena. God the Father is Zeus, Satan is Prometheus.

equally uninformed about mythology, i see.

[_moksha]

All right, I'll ask the overwhelming question: What did Jesus have in mind when he referenced God as being separate from himself. I'm' warning you Moksha, don't give me any of that mystical gibberish about this being precisely the conversation Cerberus would have between his three heads.

Jesus was in human form and a man at the time, composed of flesh and blood (though perfect). While Jesus was still a part of the Trinity, He had emptied himself in order to live a life as Adam would have, had Adam not sinned. However, being God, Jesus had to give up His Spirit to die. Man couldn't kill Him.When Jesus was raised from the dead He had not yet ascended back to the Father. When He did, the Holy Spirit was released to come down...

Speaking of the second head of Cerberus, that explanation sounds both doctrinal and something akin to the circuitous nature of explanations furnished at the MD&D board.

When you say that Jesus becoming God was a very literal transmogrification, was it different than his Passover dinner a few days earlier changing flat bread and wine into divine flesh and blood rather than an appetizer for some proto-germanic culture? How was that passover feat accomplished if he had still yet to be emptied of his earthly molecules?

So much of that trinity explanation sounds like an attempt to jive the recently certified scriptures with the Jewish concept of Monotheism. On a board that touts Occam's Razor, that seems like the simplest explanation.