Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _subgenius »

LittleNipper wrote:Three marbles do not commune. Three persons co-exual, eternal, and always existing are a lot different than 3 marbles. Now, if you stated that one marble was made up of three parts, Shape/size, Glass/material, and Color/design --- you might have a better understanding of what Trinitarians believe.

not an accurate description Nip, though i am convinced you have lost a few marbles (inevitable marble zinger).
Your idea that shape/size appeals to color/design for relief is absurd....or that glass/material is doing the will of shape/size is nonsense. Bottom line is that you would use the Nicene creed as doctrine in lieu of actual scriptures.
It is obvious that your creedal view of God insists on a multiple personality disorder and mine does not.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mittens
_Emeritus
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 am

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _Mittens »

subgenius wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:Three marbles do not commune. Three persons co-exual, eternal, and always existing are a lot different than 3 marbles. Now, if you stated that one marble was made up of three parts, Shape/size, Glass/material, and Color/design --- you might have a better understanding of what Trinitarians believe.

not an accurate description Nip, though i am convinced you have lost a few marbles (inevitable marble zinger).
Your idea that shape/size appeals to color/design for relief is absurd....or that glass/material is doing the will of shape/size is nonsense. Bottom line is that you would use the Nicene creed as doctrine in lieu of actual scriptures.
It is obvious that your creedal view of God insists on a multiple personality disorder and mine does not.


I see it the same way Joseph Smith Jr saw it when he believe the Nicene Creed

2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.


Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.


Lectures on Faith
Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man,

[url
http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/Lectures_on_Faith][/url]

All pre-1835 Joseph Smith JR

post 1835

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _LittleNipper »

subgenius wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:Three marbles do not commune. Three persons co-exual, eternal, and always existing are a lot different than 3 marbles. Now, if you stated that one marble was made up of three parts, Shape/size, Glass/material, and Color/design --- you might have a better understanding of what Trinitarians believe.

not an accurate description Nip, though i am convinced you have lost a few marbles (inevitable marble zinger).
Your idea that shape/size appeals to color/design for relief is absurd....or that glass/material is doing the will of shape/size is nonsense. Bottom line is that you would use the Nicene creed as doctrine in lieu of actual scriptures.
It is obvious that your creedal view of God insists on a multiple personality disorder and mine does not.

I'm not the one who came up the marble analogy... :redface: an LDS did... :rolleyes: God the Father is God, Jesus says He is God, And the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only ONE God and HE is jealous of any other pretender. So the teaching that there are multiple gods is clearly TOTALLY a very bad thing. :twisted: But since the nature of the only one God that exists is triune, then there is but one form God can take ------------ three united parts of a whole --- a Godhead. This totally fits scripture perfectly.
_Mittens
_Emeritus
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 am

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _Mittens »

Since man is made in the image of God he's three parts yet One Man

1 Thess 5:
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _subgenius »

LittleNipper wrote:I'm not the one who came up the marble analogy... :redface: an LDS did... :rolleyes: God the Father is God, Jesus says He is God, And the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only ONE God and HE is jealous of any other pretender. So the teaching that there are multiple gods is clearly TOTALLY a very bad thing. :twisted: But since the nature of the only one God that exists is triune, then there is but one form God can take ------------ three united parts of a whole --- a Godhead. This totally fits scripture perfectly.

Hey, google dictionary and then look up "trinity"...it means "three"...no way around it...three is not two and its definitely not one...your creed is as polytheistic as any other christian faith...welcome to the club...unless you can somehow (miraculously) resolve how the Creed manages to NOT deny Modalism completely.
The Creed in no way promotes that God simply appears in three different forms, so........awkward, but apparently you are kinda Mormon.
"Monotheism" don't exactly mean what you want it to these days, if you doubt it then just have this conversation with a person of Muslim or Jewish faith and they will quickly explain to you why Christian are not monotheistic.

see also
John 10:33-34
Psalms 82:6
Deut. 10:17

(it should be noted that LDS do not "worship" multiple gods.)
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _subgenius »

Mittens wrote:Since man is made in the image of God he's three parts yet One Man

1 Thess 5:
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

and this proves what? and how?
are you saying that the Holy Trinity is epitomized by spirit, soul, and body?
Image
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mittens
_Emeritus
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 am

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _Mittens »

subgenius wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:I'm not the one who came up the marble analogy... :redface: an LDS did... :rolleyes: God the Father is God, Jesus says He is God, And the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only ONE God and HE is jealous of any other pretender. So the teaching that there are multiple gods is clearly TOTALLY a very bad thing. :twisted: But since the nature of the only one God that exists is triune, then there is but one form God can take ------------ three united parts of a whole --- a Godhead. This totally fits scripture perfectly.

Hey, google dictionary and then look up "trinity"...it means "three"...no way around it...three is not two and its definitely not one...your creed is as polytheistic as any other christian faith...welcome to the club...unless you can somehow (miraculously) resolve how the Creed manages to NOT deny Modalism completely.
The Creed in no way promotes that God simply appears in three different forms, so........awkward, but apparently you are kinda Mormon.
"Monotheism" don't exactly mean what you want it to these days, if you doubt it then just have this conversation with a person of Muslim or Jewish faith and they will quickly explain to you why Christian are not monotheistic.

see also
John 10:33-34
Psalms 82:6
Deut. 10:17

(it should be noted that LDS do not "worship" multiple gods.)



Three separate personages — Father, Son, and Holy Ghost — comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods.

Author: Bruce R. McConkie
Source: Mormon Doctrine
Chapter: 44
Page: 576
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _subgenius »

Mittens wrote:Three separate personages — Father, Son, and Holy Ghost — comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods.

Author: Bruce R. McConkie
Source: Mormon Doctrine
Chapter: 44
Page: 576

too bad that text is not LDS Doctrine (despite its clever title) - nor is it canonized scripture....please, try again.
But, since you no doubt worship the same three Gods, welcome aboard.
For you obviously knew that the Nicene Creed flatly denies Modality....so.....once again.....awkward....you might be Mormon.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mittens
_Emeritus
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 am

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _Mittens »

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

Post by _subgenius »

Mittens wrote:Author: Bruce R. McConkie
Source: Mormon Doctrine
Chapter: 44
Page: 576

p.s.
my copy of MD does not have a "chapter 44" or any chapter for that matter...you may want to check your sources...you got the page number correct.

Rev 1:6
"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (emphasis mine)

hmmm.....
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Post Reply