The Myth of Evil Brigham Young

[_Darth J]

Joesph: "Hey watch this... Hi Brother Hyde who is your "wife" doing? (everyone else snickers)

Fix't.

[_Darth J]

I Hope Orson Goes on a Mission

I hope Orson goes on a mission,
To dedicate Jerusalem,
I hope that he's gone for a while,
So I can steal his wife while I'm still in Nauvoo,

I hope that Orson's in no hurry,
Palestine is nice this time of year,
I hope Marinda wants a new house,
And maybe Orson can come back and have a harem, too.

[_sock puppet]

I see this as a plus for Brigham, at least it should be in the eyes of the LDS. If it wasn't for Brigham, the church would not have survived. There's little doubt in my mind that had Joseph lived another 20-30 years, he would have destroyed the church, or at the very least it would be a much smaller and less influential church.

The church probably would have survived but definitely not the way it does today. Brigham held it together with an iron fist. Smith wasn't disciplined enough for that.

I agree with this (and the other posts so far).

I feel that you can tell a lot by how the saints seemed to have felt about these two men. Say what you want about Joseph Smith, but the people loved him. He was charismatic and personable and also a whole lot more fun to be around than BY (at least that's my impression). The saints feared BY. He seemed to be a tyrant.

Just study the Reformation period (starting in 1856) and how BY insisted all the members be re-baptized, etc.

If I had to choose to have one as my leader or go to lunch with one of them, I'd choose Joseph Smith over Brigham Young.

I also believe that much of what we have to deal with today in the church came from leaders later than BY. Like the emphasis placed on temple attendance and the WofW.

JSJr was not as good at being a tyrant as BY. He tried to get Sidney Rigdon kicked out of the 1st Pres and failed. The attempt, as well as the 1832 consolidation of 'revelations' just to JSJr and the formation of the Council of 50, show that JSJr was just as tyrannically bent and a megalomaniac as BY. BY had better methods to achieve his ends.

[_Bob Loblaw]

JSJr was not as good at being a tyrant as BY. He tried to get Sidney Rigdon kicked out of the 1st Pres and failed. The attempt, as well as the 1832 consolidation of 'revelations' just to JSJr and the formation of the Council of 50, show that JSJr was just as tyrannically bent and a megalomaniac as BY. BY had better methods to achieve his ends.

Brigham would just have had Sidney "used up." Joseph Smith couldn't handle any criticism or disobedience from his followers, but he didn't have the ruthlessness of Brigham.

[_Darth J]

JSJr was not as good at being a tyrant as BY. He tried to get Sidney Rigdon kicked out of the 1st Pres and failed. The attempt, as well as the 1832 consolidation of 'revelations' just to JSJr and the formation of the Council of 50, show that JSJr was just as tyrannically bent and a megalomaniac as BY. BY had better methods to achieve his ends.

Brigham would just have had Sidney "used up." Joseph Smith couldn't handle any criticism or disobedience from his followers, but he didn't have the ruthlessness of Brigham.

One of Joseph's tactical errors in the above was in effect trying to start his own country within the confines of Illinois.

Brigham Young left the territorial United States to start his own de facto country. It did not ultimately work, but it was a much bolder move.

If the Mormons really had to flee to Utah to escape the existential threat of persecution, then it is curious that those Mormons who chose not to follow Brigham Young were able to survive and form the RLDS Church.

[_Madison54]

If the Mormons really had to flee to Utah to escape the existential threat of persecution, then it is curious that those Mormons who chose not to follow Brigham Young were able to survive and form the RLDS Church.

This is true and I'd never thought of it that way.

Brigham Young would not have had much of a church without the influx of emigrants in my opinion. I looked up the statistics at one point and it's staggering to see the percentage of church members that were from other countries compared to how many actually followed BY out from Nauvoo.

[_Sethbag]

If the Mormons really had to flee to Utah to escape the existential threat of persecution, then it is curious that those Mormons who chose not to follow Brigham Young were able to survive and form the RLDS Church.

Not really. The RLDS were servants of Satan, so the folks Satan used to kick against the pricks driving out the LDS would have been inspired by their evil Overlord to leave the RLDS alone.

[_Aristotle Smith]

If the Mormons really had to flee to Utah to escape the existential threat of persecution, then it is curious that those Mormons who chose not to follow Brigham Young were able to survive and form the RLDS Church.

Not really. The RLDS were servants of Satan, so the folks Satan used to kick against the pricks driving out the LDS would have been inspired by their evil Overlord to leave the RLDS alone.

Looks like Sethbag beat me to the punch on that one.

There's also an alternate explanation. There's pretty good evidence that Joseph Smith at one point designated his son, Joseph Smith III, as his successor. Since he was the one that lead the RLDS church, this is God's sign that Brigham was a false prophet.

[Guest]

JSJr was not as good at being a tyrant as BY. He tried to get Sidney Rigdon kicked out of the 1st Pres and failed. The attempt, as well as the 1832 consolidation of 'revelations' just to JSJr and the formation of the Council of 50, show that JSJr was just as tyrannically bent and a megalomaniac as BY. BY had better methods to achieve his ends.

Right, which is exactly why God in his infinite wisdom made sure that Brigham Young was the prophet at the right time. Joseph had fulfilled his mission and had already done more for the salvation of man than anyone save Jesus Christ.

Amazingly enough, I used to believe that until I learned how messy and unclear BY's succession really was . . . now that I really think about it, it's kind of creepy to think that God just kills off his prophets when their mission here is done.

[_Cicero]

There's pretty good evidence that Joseph Smith at one point designated his son, Joseph Smith III, as his successor. Since he was the one that lead the RLDS church, this is God's sign that Brigham was a false prophet.

Joseph Smith III, Sidney Rigdon and Brigham Young all had evidence supporting their claims. Joseph Smith III had the disadvantage of being a child. Sydney Rigdon had the disadvantage of being no match for Brigham Young politically.