Chap wrote:I wonder if anyone will comment on this article?
Maybe at least to add a reference to the Robert Ritner article with choice quotes therefrom?
Or has DCP managed, once again, to wrap himself in a comment-free bubble?
I tried to post the following comment on his article.
Can we expect a similar article on what Joseph Smith got wrong in the Book of Abraham? You could start with explaining how badly he misidentified figures 1 through 6 in Facsimile #3.
And received the following 'noreply' email back from Desert News.
Thank you for commenting on How could Joseph know all of this? on DeseretNews.com. Unfortunately, your comment was not approved for the following reason: * Comment was off topic or disruptive.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
I really dislike this column. He chery picks everything that Joseph got "right." While ignoring everything he got wrong. Especially with the audience for this piece, most of them probably don't know the whole story.
The thing is, though, that the things that Smith supposedly got "right" are not necessarily right at all. I recall reading responses to the "Olishem" thing, the Abraham on the Lion Couch thing, and others. I'll have to see if I can find online sources for the critical responses to these apologetic claims.
Fence Sitter wrote:I tried to post the following comment on his article.
Can we expect a similar article on what Joseph Smith got wrong in the Book of Abraham? You could start with explaining how badly he misidentified figures 1 through 6 in Facsimile #3.
And received the following 'noreply' email back from Desert News.
Thank you for commenting on How could Joseph know all of this? on DeseretNews.com. Unfortunately, your comment was not approved for the following reason: * Comment was off topic or disruptive.
Wow, what a load of BS. My comments were shot down too. The only thing left to do is 'like' the ones that did make it through.
Last edited by _Stormy Waters on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
i'm not really familiar with Book of Abraham apologetics -- can anyone explain to me why DCP and others seem to consider this a big point in their favor?
DCP:
The book describes an attempt to sacrifice Abraham (1:7; Facsimile 1). Postbiblical literature likewise repeatedly mentions Abraham's miraculous deliverance from attempted murder [...]
but human sacrifice and attempted murder aren't actually the same thing.
this seems to be on par with the Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences:
Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.
that sounds kinda cool until you learn that Booth was caught in a tobacco barn, which isn't actually the same thing as a warehouse.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Here is one of my all time favorite apologetic arguments from the comments, which I call the "God likes to play tricks on us" argument:
The fact that it doesn't match what critics say it should is to be expected. God doesn't convince critics but the faithful. God would only give us something that absolutely has evidence and yet also requires faith - such is the Book of Abraham.
palerobber wrote:I'm not really familiar with Book of Abraham apologetics -- can anyone explain to me why DCP and others seem to consider this a big point in their favor?
There are very few who are willing to take up the support of the Book of Abraham. Historically those who have taken up this task have ended up inactive. We have two of these people posting here, both of who are very knowledgeable on the intricacies involved.
I’m not sure, but I don’t think the Book of Abraham is something DCP has typically approached in the past. I find it interesting that he has chosen this topic, with all that is happening in his life at this time.
Stormy Waters wrote: Wow, what a load of b***s***. My comments where shot down too. The only thing left to do is 'like' the ones that did make it through.
Ahhh, I wondered why the comments were so watered down.
Stormy Waters wrote: ... I really dislike this column. He cherry picks everything that Joseph got "right." While ignoring everything he got wrong. ...
And what else did you expect from Professor Peterson on this topic?
Perhaps this venture onto the Book of Abraham minefield is intended to display to the Brethren just how loyal DCP can be:
"Look! I am out there defending the Book of Abraham in public, fighting the evil critics tooth and nail! I am a good guy, and you need brave Mopologists like me!"
But I wonder whether he has got it wrong again? Haven't the Brethren indicated by their lack of references to this topic that they would simply prefer it not to be mentioned?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Wow. People are still trying to defend the Book of Abraham? You can cherry pick things that Joseph Smith might have sorta got right, but you need to look at all the evidence such as his completely incorrect explanations of Facsimile 3, and his completely inaccurate restoration of the damaged portions of the scrolls. non Mormon egyptologists are unanimous in their opinion that Joseph Smith's interpretation of the scrolls is "complete nonsense". The church should continue to ignore the Book of Abraham and silence people like Peterson who keep trying to put it in the spotlight.
I got this email repsonse:
Unfortunately, your comment was not approved for the following reason:
* Comment included personal attacks.
So I am resubmitting the following. We'll see if it is accepted:
The Book of Abraham is true. I bear my testimony of that fact. If you are struggling to know the truth of the Book of Abraham, set aside your man made logic and reason and follow Moroni 10:4 by asking God if it is true. I promise you that the spirit will confirm the truthfulness of it to you as He has to me. We cannot trust men who fight against the church using scientific theories and agendas. Turn away from man and put your trust in the Lord and his anointed leaders.
EDIT: It was accepted almost immediately. LOL.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
How likely would general population Egyptian wife stealing make it into scripts preserved from antiquity? A pharaoh doing it might. If the present pharaoh was a good man not given to wife stealing he may well have been the exception of pharaohs. But the Egyptian culture was perhaps awash with stealing wives by murdering husbands. Once any pharaoh was known to do it the die was cast for a cultural phenomena. Sort of like what happened with kids in America after Clinton and Monica was believed. Lipstick rainbow parties abounding.