Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

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_Chap
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _Chap »

Nightlion wrote:How likely would general population Egyptian wife stealing make it into scripts preserved from antiquity? A pharaoh doing it might. If the present pharaoh was a good man not given to wife stealing he may well have been the exception of pharaohs. But the Egyptian culture was perhaps awash with stealing wives by murdering husbands. Once any pharaoh was known to do it the die was cast for a cultural phenomena. Sort of like what happened with kids in America after Clinton and Monica was believed. Lipstick rainbow parties abounding.

DarthJ you are straining at a gnat here.


Look Nightlion: the story in Genesis was written for people who expected that if you traveled away from your clan group, you might find yourself in trouble. There was no police number to call in an emergency. Do you remember the story of the Levite passing through Gibeah in Judges 19?

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.


It was that kind of a time.

No ancient Israelite reader would have considered it very implausible that Abraham might want to try ensure he stayed alive if anyone wanted his woman, by at least ensuring that he was seen as her brother rather than her husband - who would have been an obvious candidate for elimination.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_DrW
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _DrW »

DarkHelmet wrote:My reply got denied too. Here is what I wrote:

Wow. People are still trying to defend the Book of Abraham? You can cherry pick things that Joseph Smith might have sorta got right, but you need to look at all the evidence such as his completely incorrect explanations of Facsimile 3, and his completely inaccurate restoration of the damaged portions of the scrolls. non Mormon egyptologists are unanimous in their opinion that Joseph Smith's interpretation of the scrolls is "complete nonsense". The church should continue to ignore the Book of Abraham and silence people like Peterson who keep trying to put it in the spotlight.


I got this email repsonse:

Unfortunately, your comment was not approved for the following reason:

* Comment included personal attacks.


So I am resubmitting the following. We'll see if it is accepted:

The Book of Abraham is true. I bear my testimony of that fact. If you are struggling to know the truth of the Book of Abraham, set aside your man made logic and reason and follow Moroni 10:4 by asking God if it is true. I promise you that the spirit will confirm the truthfulness of it to you as He has to me. We cannot trust men who fight against the church using scientific theories and agendas. Turn away from man and put your trust in the Lord and his anointed leaders.


EDIT: It was accepted almost immediately. LOL.


And now you even have people bearing testimony to your post. What discernment.

DonP
Sainte Genevieve, MO
Thank you for your testimony Joel. I add mine to yours. The Book of Abraham is true. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Chap
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _Chap »

DarkHelmet wrote: ...
So I am resubmitting the following. We'll see if it is accepted:

The Book of Abraham is true. I bear my testimony of that fact. If you are struggling to know the truth of the Book of Abraham, set aside your man made logic and reason and follow Moroni 10:4 by asking God if it is true. I promise you that the spirit will confirm the truthfulness of it to you as He has to me. We cannot trust men who fight against the church using scientific theories and agendas. Turn away from man and put your trust in the Lord and his anointed leaders.


EDIT: It was accepted almost immediately. LOL.


Now the attacks are coming in:

You wouldn't trust any man who fights against the church regardless of what reasoning they're using. And if you think the BYU studies and DNews studies posted aren't supporting agendas ... then why aren't studies posted on here that aren't supportive of the church? Like coffee benefit studies, wine benefit studies, etc? Other news outlets share them ...


You just took a bullet for the Lord ...
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_cinepro
_Emeritus
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _cinepro »

palerobber wrote:
this seems to be on par with the Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences:
Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.


that sounds kinda cool until you learn that Booth was caught in a tobacco barn, which isn't actually the same thing as a warehouse.



Or a year before being assassinated, Lincoln was in Monroe, Maryland.

A year before being assassinated, JFK was in Marilyn Monroe.
_palerobber
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _palerobber »

a year before JFK's assassination, Marilyn Monroe was dead.
_RockSlider
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _RockSlider »

palerobber wrote:a year before JFK's assassination, Marilyn Monroe was dead.


well that sick bastard!
_Chap
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _Chap »

Latest:

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

If the papyri the LDS Church is in possession of has been proven to discredit the Book of Abraham, why did the church not simply destroy it when they first got their hands on it?

It seems to me if I had gone around making wild claims about something, only to come into possession of evidence which refuted my claims, I would want to destroy that evidence ASAP.


Cough ... Salamander letter ... cough ....

(Maybe LDS church leaders just were not clever enough?)
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Go DH Go!!!

This is priceless.

The papyri only disproves the Book of Abraham to anti-mormons with an agenda. LDS scholars who have actually studied the papyri and compared it to the Book of Abraham have discovered it is a perfect match. We don't need evidence to have faith. But it is nice to know that the evidence the church has in its possession verifies that our faith is correct.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_kairos
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _kairos »

To my small non-lds mind, it seems Joseph Smith only added God/Lord as the source of the direction to abram ,rather than have abram use his own reasoning in the scam-simple adding to KJV by Joseph Smith
IMHO-nothing DCP has to try to justify if he only recognized what really happened.
in my living Bible version i quote gen 12:11 -20 " As he (abram) was approaching the border of egypt, Abram said(Joseph Smith puts God here giving abe counsel) to his wife sarai "when the egyptians see you, they will say "this is his wife. let's kill him, then we can have her". so please tell them you are my sister. then they will spare my life and treat me well because of their interest in you. And sure enough when abram arrived in egypt, everyone spoke of sarai's beauty. when the palace officials saw her, they sang her praises to pharaoh,their king, and sarai was taken into his palace. then pharaoh gave abram many gifts because of her- sheep, goats, cattle, male and female donkeys,male and female servants and camels. but the lord sent terrible plagues upon pharaoh and his household because of sarai, abram's wife. so pharoah summoned abram and accused him sharply " what have you done to me? he demanded, why didn't you tell me she was your wife? why did you say "she is my sister and allow me to take her as my wife? now then ,here is your wife. take her and get out of here. pharaoh ordered some of his men to escort them and he sent abram out of the country ,along with his wife and all his possessions."
If abe had owned up to his being S's husband,good chance they would have killed him-in his own mind. by having S say S is his sister he saves his life. As sister, S becomes P's wife-if abram is killed S would still become wife to P. Seems like man's thinking not God's -Oh sorry Joseph Smith thinking.
_Madison54
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Re: Book of Abraham defense by Dan Peterson

Post by _Madison54 »

I have to admit that the Book Of Abraham is an area I'm not that familiar with....but I know the main issues and problems with it.

Here's a link to an article about it in the NY Times that helped me understand it better:

http://www.utlm.org/other/nytimes1912papyrusarticle.pdf
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