consiglieri wrote:P.S. When the GD teacher showed me the manual with the customary circles showing the different stages of existence, including the three vertical circles showing the kingdoms, I told her I think it helpful to draw them as follows--I then drew the celestial kingdom circle, then the terrestrial kingdom circle inside it; then the telestial kingdom circle inside that
Hmm. Very Interesting. Please go on.
"In my more rebellious days I tried to doubt the existence of the sacred, but the universe kept dancing and life kept writing poetry across my life." ~ David N. Elkins, 1998, Beyond Religion, p. 81
mercyngrace wrote:Hmm. Very Interesting. Please go on.
That is more accurate doctrinally. All three kingdoms constitute the kingdom of God in heaven.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
mercyngrace wrote: Hmm. Very Interesting. Please go on.
I think it more beneficial to view the celestial kingdom as encompassing the terrestrial, and the terrestrial encompassing the telestial.
It may also help to explain why it is that those in the celestial kingdom can see things related to inferior kingdoms by looking down (presumably) into its crystalline depths to see what dwells beneath.
D&C 130:9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it;
(It also fits better with certain pseudepigraphic descriptions of how the multiple heavens relate to one another. I like Zeez's diagram, too!)
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
mercyngrace wrote:Hmm. Very Interesting. Please go on.
That is more accurate doctrinally. All three kingdoms constitute the kingdom of God in heaven.
I'd like to see exactly what drew a jaw dropping reaction and hear how Consig explained it.
What I usually teach is that the earth is supposed to be the celestial sphere. All saved inhabitants of this earth are going to live here (ie all but SOPs). So kingdoms doesn't refer to a location but a manner of living (a glory). There are three in the celestial kingdom. Let's call them telestial, terrestrial, and celestial...
About that time people start asking questions.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"In my more rebellious days I tried to doubt the existence of the sacred, but the universe kept dancing and life kept writing poetry across my life." ~ David N. Elkins, 1998, Beyond Religion, p. 81
Drifting wrote:When a class member puts their hand up and asks "what was Gods plan for those children that went to the cinema in Denver and ended up getting shot" what will be your response?
I know what I would say. You however would be that member who would only hear Blah, blah, blah as you prepare your next loaded question. You care little for the answer from me or from anyone, you care for the sound of your own voice.
consiglieri wrote:I think it more beneficial to view the celestial kingdom as encompassing the terrestrial, and the terrestrial encompassing the telestial.
It may also help to explain why it is that those in the celestial kingdom can see things related to inferior kingdoms by looking down (presumably) into its crystalline depths to see what dwells beneath.
D&C 130:9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it;
(It also fits better with certain pseudepigraphic descriptions of how the multiple heavens relate to one another. I like Zeez's diagram, too!)
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
Fascinating. I can see that in the scriptures, definitely. I emphasize the nature of these gradations as increasing in light and knowledge such that each has the ability to understand 'inferiors', having once inhabited that space and progressed through it.
So Enoch is of a terrestrial order right now (TPJS) and he ministers to telestial beings like us. He can see and understand this kingdom because he understands the nature of this world as well as the nature of mortal men. Less a matter of location, more a matter of having passed this way before.
"In my more rebellious days I tried to doubt the existence of the sacred, but the universe kept dancing and life kept writing poetry across my life." ~ David N. Elkins, 1998, Beyond Religion, p. 81
consiglieri wrote:(It also fits better with certain pseudepigraphic descriptions of how the multiple heavens relate to one another. I like Zeez's diagram, too!)
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
Hey Consig!
I think it would totally rock if you pinned up a Dante's Inferno illustration to help describe your concept to the class. Please let me know how it goes if you plan to do it.
Zee.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
consiglieri wrote:I find the Book of Mormon has a lot to say if we will stop imposing our beliefs on it. --Consiglieri
The LDS church has gone the way of all churches of man. I let all of that go and use scripture as my guide. And I do use the Book of Mormon and the Bible as my guide. The D and C not so much. I feel the church was already taking a wrong turn from the spirit early on. This happened to the Church established by the original apostles and will happen with any church that man runs. But there is enough framework there for us to see the original message. We must make mistakes or we do not learn. How clear that message is yet many will say the church is perfect. They like their predecessors the Jews under Moses will not see beyond what they want to see. Those of us who see the original message have a duty to discuss that message and ignore all of the added fluff. I do pray that is your goal.
When I look at the Bible I see one message. When I read the doctrines of the RCC I see a different animal. The LDS church is no different. Given the RCC had absolute power it corrupted absolutely. Since the LDS church has been limited in power it has not gone astray as much. But this is no reason to cast it aside. In both the RCC and the LDS church there are many great members. And I have seen the spirit act in all of mankind not just the LDS church. I don't fight the doctrine instead I tell the story of the core message. It is like Peter said about the present truth. He will bring back the present truth even after his death. It is that core Gospel we seek to teach. Love your God and love each other. Can it be that simple?
