You'll rejoice when you see your children in hell

[_Nightlion]

Context is king. If you do not mind. Something is missing here. CFR

It is from the King Follet sermon. The context doesn't change anything from what I can gather reading through the sermon.

Would it have killed you to quote a little before and after? I am not where I can read it easily. On line link? I gonna have to hunt that down.

[_Boilermaker]

I think the fact that the LDS Church spares no expense pursuing temple work for the entire human race in complete disregard of the standard of righteousness Jesus Christ commanded proves that those in charge are Universalists. I will have lots more to say about this. Holy Cow Man!

What a take I will make
Diggin' the pit I'm in
Figures

I get the feeling there are a lot of people who claim to be Christians who will only be happy if they see a lot of people in hell. Temple work was started by Joseph Smith so do you disagree with temple work?

[_Boilermaker]

Would it have killed you to quote a little before and after? I am not where I can read it easily. On line link? I gonna have to hunt that down.

Here you go:

What kind of characters are those who can be saved although their bodies are decaying in the grave? When his commandments teach us, it is in view of eternity. The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead. The apostle says, "They without us cannot be made perfect" [Hebrews 11:40]. Now I will speak of them: I say to you Paul, you cannot be perfect without us. It is necessary that those who have gone before and those who will come after us should have salvation in common with us, and thus hath God made it obligatory to man. Hence God said he should send Elijah.

I have a declaration to make as to the provisions which God hath made to suit the conditions of man-made from before the foundation of the world. What has Jesus said? All sins and all blasphemies, every transgression, except one, that man can be guilty of may be forgiven either in this world or the world to come. Hence God hath made a provision, that every spirit in the eternal world can be ferreted out and saved unless he has committed that unpardonable sin, which cannot be remitted to him. God has wrought out a salvation for all men, unless they have committed a certain sin. Every man who has a friend in the eternal world can save him unless he has committed the unpardonable sin, and so you can see how far you can be a savior. A man cannot commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, and there is a way possible for escape. Knowledge saves a man, and in the world of spirits a man cannot be exalted except by knowledge. So long as a man will not give heed to the commandments, he must abide without salvation. A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, "They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone." The torment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. So is the torment of man.

I know the scriptures; I understand them. I said that no man can commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, but he must do it in this world. Hence the salvation of Jesus Christ was wrought out for all men in order to triumph over the devil; for if it did not catch him in one place, it would in another, for he stood up as a Savior.

The contention in heaven was this: Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved, and the devil said he could save them all. The grand council gave in for Jesus Christ. So the devil rebelled against God and fell, with all who put up their heads for him.

All sins shall be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it. He has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been open to him. And from that time he begins to be an enemy to this work, like many of the apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When a man begins to be an enemy, he hunts me; he seeks to kill me; he thirsts for my blood; he never ceases. He has the same spirit of them who crucified the Lord of Life-the same spirit that sins against the Holy Ghost. You cannot bring him to repentance. Awful is the consequence.

I advise all of you to be careful what you do, or by-and-by you may find that you have been deceived. Stay yourselves; do not give way. You may find that someone has laid a snare for you. Be cautious; await! When you find a spirit that wants bloodshed--murder--the same is not of God but is of the devil. Out of the abundance of the heart a man speaketh. The man that tells you words of life is the man who can save you. I warn you against all evil characters who sin against the Holy Ghost, for there is no redemption for them in this world or in the world to come.

[_mercyngrace]

I think the fact that the LDS Church spares no expense pursuing temple work for the entire human race in complete disregard of the standard of righteousness Jesus Christ commanded proves that those in charge are Universalists. I will have lots more to say about this. Holy Cow Man!

What a take I will make
Diggin' the pit I'm in
Figures

Nightlion,

The first quote is from the King Follett sermon as Boilermaker pointed out - that roughly page 340 in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. The second quote is from Lectures on Faith 7.

Just to be clear, a universalist approach does not suggest that salvation comes without repentance or that salvation comes to beings who are not godly. Nehor's problem was that he thought salvation came without repentance. "Mormon" universalism recognizes that every knee will bow and every tongue confess eventually and that this act will be an act of our own will.

[_mercyngrace]

I get the feeling there are a lot of people who claim to be Christians who will only be happy if they see a lot of people in hell.

Yes there seem to be. They would do well to read Luke 6.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Some who expect to receive a good measure don't seem inclined to give one.

[Guest]

The Bible is full of passages that support universalism. I'll start with John 12:32. "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." He doesn't say some men, but all men. There really aren't any verses that say that God forecloses at death.

To whom was Jesus speaking? Was he speaking to a multitude of people of various nationalities and backgrounds? Jesus was simply saying he would draw men from every kindred, every kind and every sort. Was Jesus leaving out women? Of course not! Jesus was speaking about where believers would come from. They would come from ALL sorts of backgrounds, come from ALL races. They would be from both Jew and gentile. At the same time, I do see that even atheists point at Jesus when they try to condemn Christianity --- so they are being drawn but simply refuse to take the step of faith God lays out for them ---- drawn but not captured...

[_Nightlion]

I think the fact that the LDS Church spares no expense pursuing temple work for the entire human race in complete disregard of the standard of righteousness Jesus Christ commanded proves that those in charge are Universalists. I will have lots more to say about this. Holy Cow Man!

What a take I will make
Diggin' the pit I'm in
Figures

I get the feeling there are a lot of people who claim to be Christians who will only be happy if they see a lot of people in hell. Temple work was started by Joseph Smith so do you disagree with temple work?

Nobody agrees better with Joseph Smith than do I. Temple work is ONLY for those who gain exaltation. It is limited to those who WOULD have embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ with all their hearts IF they had the chance to IN THIS LIFE.

What temple work cannot do is save all humanity into the Celestial Kingdom. Joseph taught that the wicked will suffer UNTIL they accept Christ. They cease to suffer and are saved from the torments of hell in ANY of the degrees of glory that they merit. Telestial glory which varies as do the stars, Terrestrial glory which has the presence of Christ but not the fulness of the Father, and the Celestial which has both the those who are exalted and those who are not.

The folly in Mcgospel temple work is denying the power of godliness. Notice in the King Follett Discourse that Joseph Smith ends with a precise treatise on the gospel. He teaches the importance of getting the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. This is what's missing in LDS performances today. It is the ignorance of this principle that tramples upon the Holy One of Israel and sins against the gospel.

Now at first blush it would appear that the Universalism in the LDS Church skips the gospel in this life and in the life to come to warrant all the same salvation regardless. This is wrong. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. He will perfect his kingdom relative to settling everything according to his laws. This will include all the degrees of glory. If glory then you cannot consider it hell.

But hell still if a telestial kingdom is just not making it for you. Then what? Joseph did not get into that. I know the rest of the story and I know more about what Joseph was alluding to in Christ following in the tracks of his Father. Joseph died a three months later. He did not have time or place to tell all. And that was key to a fulfillment of prophesy and the Gentile's sin against the gospel, which is well accomplished today.

[_Boilermaker]

Nobody agrees better with Joseph Smith than do I. Temple work is ONLY for those who gain exaltation. It is limited to those who WOULD have embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ with all their hearts IF they had the chance to IN THIS LIFE.

What temple work cannot do is save all humanity into the Celestial Kingdom. Joseph taught that the wicked will suffer UNTIL they accept Christ. They cease to suffer and are saved from the torments of hell in ANY of the degrees of glory that they merit. Telestial glory which varies as do the stars, Terrestrial glory which has the presence of Christ but not the fulness of the Father, and the Celestial which has both the those who are exalted and those who are not.

The folly in Mcgospel temple work is denying the power of godliness. Notice in the King Follett Discourse that Joseph Smith ends with a precise treatise on the gospel. He teaches the importance of getting the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. This is what's missing in LDS performances today. It is the ignorance of this principle that tramples upon the Holy One of Israel and sins against the gospel.

Now at first blush it would appear that the Universalism in the LDS Church skips the gospel in this life and in the life to come to warrant all the same salvation regardless. This is wrong. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. He will perfect his kingdom relative to settling everything according to his laws. This will include all the degrees of glory. If glory then you cannot consider it hell.

But hell still if a telestial kingdom is just not making it for you. Then what? Joseph did not get into that. I know the rest of the story and I know more about what Joseph was alluding to in Christ following in the tracks of his Father. Joseph died a three months later. He did not have time or place to tell all. And that was key to a fulfillment of prophesy and the Gentile's sin against the gospel, which is well accomplished today.

So how many people belong to your church?

[_Nightlion]

The Bible is full of passages that support universalism. I'll start with John 12:32. "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." He doesn't say some men, but all men. There really aren't any verses that say that God forecloses at death.

To whom was Jesus speaking?...

John 10 kills universalism very dead.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.


Notice that his sheep get exaltation or eternal life. Few there be that find it.

[_Nightlion]

So how many people belong to your church?

All who receive or ever have received or who ever will receive the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Paul for instance:

1Corinthians 2:
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Of course you mean nobody on the planet believes what I teach and therefore I lose. lol

You will seek an answer to this proverb and not find it:

THIS IS WINNING?