?'s for Kishkumen

[_Nomomo]

I want to be clear this is not meant to be an "attack" thread.

I am an LDS person who speaks my mind concerning things about the LDS Church that bother me, mostly on the topic of LDS apologetics. I do not consider myself a general "critic" of Mormonism or the LDS Church.

Do you believe the Church is true?

Do you attend Priesthood meeting or any other church meetings?

Do you pay tithing?

Do you have a temple recommend?

Do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet selected by God?

Do you believe Monson is God's Prophet on earth?

Do you believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ? And that we are in the "Latter Days"

Do you believe in the "Restoration"?

[_Kishkumen]

Do you believe the Church is true?

Do you attend Priesthood meeting or any other church meetings?

Do you pay tithing?

Do you have a temple recommend?

Do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet selected by God?

Do you believe Monson is God's Prophet on earth?

Do you believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ? And that we are in the "Latter Days"

Do you believe in the "Restoration"?

Hey, Nomomo. I appreciate your interest. Unfortunately, the essence of my position is a disavowal of "I believe..." and "I know..." statements. I am LDS. I was baptized, received the Melchizedek priesthood, endowed, served a mission, and was married in the temple. I strive to lead an upright life and to be a good friend. I strive to be compassionate. I often fail. I do not hold a temple recommend, partly because I no longer answer many of the questions you posed. Some of these questions are frankly nobody's business. Sorry to seem rude, but this very approach to religion is something I take issue with. Maybe you can judge me on that basis. It does, after all, seem very heterodox.

[_Nomomo]

Hey, Nomomo. I appreciate your interest.

I'm sure ~_-

Unfortunately, the essence of my position is a disavowal of "I believe..." and "I know..." statements.

Key word: position

I am LDS. I was baptized, received the Melchizedek priesthood, endowed, served a mission, and was married in the temple.

In other words a former believer

I strive to lead an upright life and to be a good friend. I strive to be compassionate. I often fail.

Admirable goals.

I do not hold a temple recommend, partly because I no longer answer many of the questions you posed. Some of these questions are frankly nobody's business. Sorry to seem rude, but this very approach to religion is something I take issue with.

No rudeness taken. I suspect that privately among close and trusted friends you are actually more prone to answer questions such as I posed.(that is not necessarily a criticism)

Maybe you can judge me on that basis. It does, after all, seem very heterodox.

My objective was not to "judge" you. You may think me an ass if you wish, but I never thought for a moment you would answer the questions I posed. I was curious in how you would respond. After all, we both know what your answers to those questions would be were you to give them ~_-

[_RockSlider]

Do you believe the Church is true?
Do you attend Priesthood meeting or any other church meetings?
Do you pay tithing?
Do you have a temple recommend?
Do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet selected by God?
Do you believe Monson is God's Prophet on earth?
Do you believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ? And that we are in the "Latter Days"
Do you believe in the "Restoration"?

You forgot - Do you observe the WoW?

Funny how one's worthiness and chances of salvation and exaltation in the Celestial kingdom is based on one's ability (or willingness) to answer yes to these questions.

How many of these "commandments" are found in the Old and New Testament?

[_Bob Loblaw]

You forgot - Do you observe the WoW?

Funny how one's worthiness and chances of salvation and exaltation in the Celestial kingdom is based on one's ability (or willingness) to answer yes to these questions.

How many of these "commandments" are found in the Old and New Testament?

To be a good person, you need to be kind, loving, compassionate, and willing to serve others.

To have a temple recommend you have to pay tithing, sustain your leaders, and keep the Word of Wisdom.

In other words, having a temple recommend has nothing to do with being a good person.

[_RockSlider]

To be a good person, you need to be kind, loving, compassionate, and willing to serve others.
To have a temple recommend you have to pay tithing, sustain your leaders, and keep the Word of Wisdom.
In other words, having a temple recommend has nothing to do with being a good person.

So what you are suggesting is it is not a requirment to be a good person to be Exalted in the Mormon Celestial Kingdom?

Blasphemy!!

[_mercyngrace]

Hey Rock!
I hope you are well.

I don't want to get too into this thread because I'm tied up in another already but I wanted to add a twist to your words here.

Funny how one's worthiness and chances of salvation and exaltation in the Celestial kingdom is based on one's ability (or willingness) to answer yes to these questions.

How many of these "commandments" are found in the Old and New Testament?

Maybe it isn't one's worthiness and chance of salvation and exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom that is based on the answers to those questions, but one's ability to function as priest officiating on behalf of those outside the temple - all of whom will have the salvation and exaltation eventually offered to them.

Maybe these commandments aren't in the New Testament because they are more comparable to those in the Old Testament book of Leviticus. Could it be that the temple which we have reduced to a wedding mill is actually supposed to be the great symbol of inclusivity, in which the sons of Levi offering sacrifice for the entirety of the human race?

[Guest]

My objective was not to "judge" you. You may think me an ass if you wish, but I never thought for a moment you would answer the questions I posed. I was curious in how you would respond. After all, we both know what your answers to those questions would be were you to give them ~_-

Huh. Well, let me add this, if it helps. Ideally, I don't want to engage anyone in such questions. Who I am is determined by what I do, not by hollow affirmations. Anyone can say, "I believe," or, "I know." I have seen a young man cry as he bore his testimony just hours after sexually assaulting a friend of mine. I don't know what to make of that. All I can say is that affirmations of this kind are worth spit to me.

I endeavor to live the two great commandments. I am a long way from perfecting the art of keeping them.

[_Nightlion]

To be a good person, you need to be kind, loving, compassionate, and willing to serve others.
To have a temple recommend you have to pay tithing, sustain your leaders, and keep the Word of Wisdom.
In other words, having a temple recommend has nothing to do with being a good person.

So what you are suggesting is it is not a requirment to be a good person to be Exalted in the Mormon Celestial Kingdom?

Blasphemy!!

What possibly can holding a temple recommend warrant of exaltation?

They would have to ask this question:

Alma 5:
26 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?

Wherein a conversation of discovery is entered into as to explain what change of heart is all about and what singing the song of redeeming love is all about. And feeling so now is investigated. And that would keep the temple clean and worthy of all acceptation where both the power and presence of Christ CAN be.
Where no unclean thing is suffered to come in to pollute it.

How far could Zion be from this sort of administration? I weep.
Okay, I am not really weeping. Ya know.

[_Kishkumen]

Maybe it isn't one's worthiness and chance of salvation and exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom that is based on the answers to those questions, but one's ability to function as priest officiating on behalf of those outside the temple - all of whom will have the salvation and exaltation eventually offered to them.

Maybe these commandments aren't in the New Testament because they are more comparable to those in the Old Testament book of Leviticus. Could it be that the temple which we have reduced to a wedding mill is actually supposed to be the great symbol of inclusivity, in which the sons of Levi offering sacrifice for the entirety of the human race?

I love your posts. Thank you for sharing your insights. They are so refreshing.