zeezrom wrote:And to be clear, I mean that I want to stop looking at the church like a Sith: in absolutes or black & white.
First of all, zeezrom, the Sith never purported to think in absolutes. That was a Jedi mischaracterization of their code.
Second, it was notably ironic for Obi-wan Kenobi to say, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
I suggest that you consider what the Sith really believe, as it pertains to the rest of your post:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
And I will further thank you to stop misrepresenting our beliefs! Good day to you, sir!
zeezrom wrote:My children don't have to go through the f*****g shaming I went through. They don't have to worry that they aren't worthy of heaven. They don't have to believe God is always disappointed in them. They don't have to feel that everyone else around them is more worthy than them. They don't have to have any of this, even if we stay involved.
This is a revelation. It is buried in some obscure thread on MDB. But it is a big revelation for me.
It makes me happy to see that revelations are occurring, and that hope abounds. I would not want you to have to watch your children suffer as you feel you did.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I won't pretend to defend the check the box mentality of much of the church, mostly because I personally find it inconsistent with the gospel. If one has a change of heart, he keeps the law because of his new nature. Checking boxes to earn salvation is more like behavioral modification and works from the outside in, in opposite manner of true conversion.
Why is there so much legalism? Because of the hardness of our hearts. Because we aren't converted. Because the law (love God, love neighbor) isn't written on the fleshy tables of our hearts. It's the same reason Christ gave for the Mosaic bill of divorcement. Our hearts collectively are too hard. But I have great hope, Hasa, and I've seen glimmers, that the members of the church are moving toward something better.
As for temple work applying to all, there are a wealth of quotes from LDS leaders to this end and many scriptures which point to universal, or at least near universal, salvation. Here is just one:
Boyd K. Packer: Some years ago I was in Washington, D.C., with President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973). Early one morning he called me to come into his hotel room. He was sitting in his robe reading Gospel Doctrine, by President Joseph F. Smith (1838–1918), and he said, “Listen to this! “ ‘Jesus had not finished his work when his body was slain, neither did he finish it after his resurrection from the dead; although he had accomplished the purpose for which he then came to the earth, he had not fulfilled all his work. And when will he? Not until he has redeemed and saved every son and daughter of our father Adam that have been or ever will be born upon this earth to the end of time, except the sons of perdition. That is his mission. We will not finish our work until we have saved ourselves, and then not until we shall have saved all depending upon us; for we are to become saviors upon Mount Zion, as well as Christ. We are called to this mission.’ ”
Regarding the temple... The high priest offered sacrifice for the whole house of Israel just as LDS officiate on behalf of the whole world. The problem is that these symbolic works - yes, symbolic - are designed to teach us something that most of us are too hard-hearted to understand. As a result we have transformed a rite that should be calibrating us to the law of Christ as expressed in Galatians 2 or the principles of persuasive and long-suffering priesthood power as described in D&C 121 and collectively, we see not neither do we hear. Our hearts are turned to exalting ourselves which results only in being abased. Consider the foolish tradition that God will keep a loved one out of His presence based alone on the fact that you have failed to do genealogy. Temple goers rushing to temples worldwide in a frantic race to get Aunt Marge or Uncle Jim out of the grand waiting room where their God, apparently a bureaucrat, waits for the proper forms to be signed entirely miss the glorious truth that the temple's greatest power is realized in turning hearts of sons toward fathers and vice versa in a way that has real impact in homes and communities right here and now. It should absolutely be a symbol of inclusivity but that's not to suggest anyone in any condition should enter to officiate. Could it be more open? Yes. Could there be a "Gentile Court"? I don't know why not.
I also agree that there have been exclusive practices which, I personally believe, were/are at best institutional growing pains and again, perhaps, a reflection of who we are or more specifically, who we aren't - yet. I can't defend what has been done with the temple, only what I see I see as the ideal.
I know that doesn't even come close to a response to all the questions you raised most of which would warrant their own threads and be worthwhile discussions but I'm all done thinking today. It's 11 pm on my coast and my children are still awake which means I have to go downstairs and reign with blood and horror (speaking of the temple) before I get to collapse into bed...
"In my more rebellious days I tried to doubt the existence of the sacred, but the universe kept dancing and life kept writing poetry across my life." ~ David N. Elkins, 1998, Beyond Religion, p. 81
Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Until the LDS Church stops being so black and white I wouldn't expect the majority of those that leave it to, and I wouldn't hold your breath for either changing their approach anytime soon.
Thanks,
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Don't worry, I'm not. I would like to see an easing up on chasing down liberals. I would like to see more room for people to be discreetly heterodox and liberal. There needs to be more community opportunities along those lines, more opportunities for community intellectual stimulation. But I don't expect that the Church in general will become less pitched to the black & white thinkers. Seems to me that this is just the kind of thing that works for kids and people with certain kinds of personalities.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I won't pretend to defend the check the box mentality of much of the church, mostly because I personally find it inconsistent with the gospel...
Did I forget to say that in my dream ward mercyngrace and consiglieri would be the permanent Sunday School teachers, trading off Sundays?
It wouldn't work. TBMs like Droopy and bcspace would chase them out of the building with pitchforks.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom