Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

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_Darth J
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _Darth J »

TAO wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Why would anyone care if Schyrver published his stuff?


Because they don't like what he says, I'm guessing.


Exactly, TAO. You're guessing.

Name names of who specifically is opposed to Schryver's various theories being published far and wide.

I, for one, have been saying for two years that not only do I hope that Schryver becomes the public face of Mormon apologetics, but that I won't be satisfied until his work is printed in the Ensign.

So WHO is on this cabal of anti-Mormons opposing his cipher/scroll length/hypothesis-of-the-day being subjected to "publishment"?
_Drifting
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _Drifting »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
TAO wrote:Because they don't like what he says, I'm guessing.


If he hasn't published no one knows what he is saying. I would like him to publish just so he'll stop playing the mistreated victim.


There is nothing stopping him publishing it on his blog or elsewhere.
He wants the attention of; claiming he has something to publish; claiming its game changing; claiming he is so important 'they' are working tirelessly to try and prevent publication, without actually having to deliver anything.

The reality is, nobody is stopping him.
Of course that means he has nothing, it isn't game changing, he isn't important, nobody is working to prevent anything, and he has nothing to deliver.

He can't shut up because he has nothing to put up.

Sad...very, very sad...
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_TAO
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _TAO »

Darth J wrote:
TAO wrote:Because they don't like what he says, I'm guessing.


Exactly, TAO. You're guessing.


Okay, I'll withdraw my claim then.
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _MsJack »

Tao ~ I just wanted to say that I'm genuinely happy to see you back on this forum. You're happy cat avatar always makes me smile. (It reminds me of my baby, Aslan.)

Image

For the record, even I'm not opposed to William publishing at this point. I think I made my point and I got the issue out there. As I told another poster back in December 2011:

MsJack wrote:. . . I'm aware that William has been thundering that his work will be published after all. As I see it, that leaves four possibilities: (1) the MI has changed its mind; (2) William has found another outlet for publication; (3) William will be self-publishing or publishing through another venue that lacks a peer review process, or (4) William is just making stuff up and dangling carrots for his sycophants. And the truth is, I'm pretty indifferent to whichever it is.

The purpose of my thread was never to bar William from publication forever. I had no idea it would even have the effect of temporarily halting his publication(s)---assuming that's what has happened---and was quite shocked when that news reached my inbox. My primary objectives were to end his ugly treatment of women and to force the LDS apologetics community to confront the issue. I'm satisfied that both of these objectives were achieved. While I do not believe that William has had a change of heart and repented and come to understand why it's wrong to treat women the way he did, I do believe that he understands that behaving that way can get in the way of his other goals (even if he'll never admit this). That may be enough of a leash. Only time will tell.

In the weeks after I posted my thread, I received an outpouring of private "thank yous" from people involved with or interested in LDS apologetics who were concerned about William, but hesitant to speak out against a fellow apologist. Especially someone like William who was pretty much demonizing anyone who tried to express concern to him and accusing them of backstabbing, treachery, apostasy, etc. But I know for sure now that there are people in the apologetics community who care about things like this and will take action if necessary.

I've done my best to avoid these "zomg wut is Will doing next??" threads for the past seven months, and that's because I don't much care what William is doing next. There is no encore to my misogyny thread in the works, and unless William reverts back to his former behavior in force, there never will be. I made my point and I've moved on. If William's work can pass a peer review process, then he's as welcome in Mormon studies as anyone. If it can't, then his work will never have much traction anyways.

I personally think that William cannot get his feral behavior under control and that he will prove an embarrassment to anyone who chooses to associate with him for reasons that go far beyond misogyny. But anyone who can't see that in his online behavior by this point is probably never going to see it.

I'm not disappointed that a university that aspires to model Christian teachings said "no" to publishing William on account of his behavior. That makes me proud of my alma mater. But at this point, even I say: let him publish. There are plenty of outlets out there that won't care about his online behavior, so if his work is really as quality as he says it is, I don't understand what the hold-up has been.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

TAO wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:Why would anyone care if Schyrver published his stuff?

Because they don't like what he says, I'm guessing.

Perhaps this is true for administrators at BYU and MI, and perhaps for many at FAIR and MADB, but certainly not here. From what I can see, everyone here who has commented on the issue WANTS the article published in order to read it. I'm certainly in that camp (but I also believe that a reputable university like BYU should not publish it for the reasons stated above).
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _TAO »

MsJack wrote:Tao ~ I just wanted to say that I'm genuinely happy to see you back on this forum. You're happy cat avatar always makes me smile. (It reminds me of my baby, Aslan.)
Image


PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! =^..^=

Nice cat by the way! How old is he/she? =D

For the record, even I'm not opposed to William publishing at this point. I think I made my point and I got the issue out there.

I'm not disappointed that a university that aspires to model Christian teachings said "no" to publishing William on account of his behavior. That makes me proud of my alma mater. But at this point, even I say: let him publish. There are plenty of outlets out there that won't care about his online behavior, so if his work is really as quality as he says it is, I don't understand what the hold-up has been.


Yeah, i withdrew the claim. Rollo is probably right that it more relates to MI rather than here. Sorry about that.
_cafe crema
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _cafe crema »

TAO wrote:
café crema wrote:Isn't helping with what? They way I'm reading this is that the small jokes directed at Will are eroding your belief that this thing and Will's publishing are not related, right?


Yeah, that's about right. And I'd be very disappointed if they were related. You don't do things like this to stop publishment of things.

Alas, I don't think they are related currently.


I don't see why taking jabs at Will should be considered evidence that the two are related. But even if Will was squashed because of what MsJack compiled, it was still only a collection of Will's words. If he lost out publishing due to the compilation it was because of what he said not because someone pointed it out.
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _MsJack »

TAO wrote:PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! =^..^=

Nice cat by the way! How old is he/she? =D

Four years old. We just adopted him in March. He sometimes refuses to get off the bed when I am making it, so I make it over the top of him.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_TAO
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _TAO »

MsJack wrote:
TAO wrote:PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! =^..^=

Nice cat by the way! How old is he/she? =D

Four years old. We just adopted him in March. He sometimes refuses to get off the bed when I am making it, so I make it over the top of him.


Lol. Does he just sit there, or move? My cat can't stand having a blanked on top of her most of the time (that's not my cat in the picture by the way - my cat is a gray tabby)
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry

Post by _MsJack »

TAO wrote:Lol. Does he just sit there, or move? My cat can't stand having a blanked on top of her most of the time (that's not my cat in the picture by the way - my cat is a gray tabby)

I'll be trying to make the bed and he'll just lay there defiantly like, "You think I'm moving for that? Think again!" So I just toss the sheets and blanket over the top of him. And he seems to like it because he tends to stay under them.

Funny story: I was staying as a guest in someone's home once, and this woman had the most skiddish cat I had ever met. Like, I only saw this cat 3-4 times in the entire month we stayed there, it was so good at staying out of sight. One day I was looking for my daughter's purple Teletubby plush toy, and I saw a lump under the covers of the bed in one of the guest rooms. I thought, "Oh, my daughter must have been playing in there, and that's her Teletubby under the covers." I moved over to the bed and touched the bump.

That bump shot across the bed like lightning. I screamed. And for just a fraction of a second, my terrified brain decided that my daughter's Teletubby had come alive.

Then I realized it was the stupid cat.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
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