black rain

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_MeDotOrg
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _MeDotOrg »

EAllusion wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:So the evidence strongly suggests that dropping the bomb ultimately saved millions of lives.


I know this is a popular argument, one I used to use myself, but it urns out the Japanese were on the cusp of essentially unconditional surrender - they had been working toward offering a surrender on terms virtually identical to what actually happened - and that land invasion almost certainly wouldn't have been necessary. We knew this as we had broken their code and were reading their efforts to surrender. High level military officials wanted to use the atomic bombs as a warning to Russia.


Yes, there were elements of the Japanese Power Structure that wanted a negotiated peace, but I think it is not accurate to say that they were on the "cusp of essentially unconditional surrender".

On July 12th, General Togo instructed Ambasador Sato to convey this message to the Soviets:

"His Majesty the Emperor, mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice upon the peoples of all the belligerent powers, desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But so long as England and the United States insist upon unconditional surrender, the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on with all its strength for the honor and existence of the Motherland."

Preparations for homeland defense were quite active and ongoing.

(Keep in mind that unconditional surrender was part of the Potsdam treaty, to which the Soviets were signatures.)

On July 17th, (one day after the secret Trinity explosion at Alamogordo) Togo elaborated: "Please bear particularly in mind, however, that we are not seeking the Russians' mediation for anything like an unconditional surrender.

That message was transmitted in the Purple cipher code that was being read by the Americans.

It is highly unlikely that the Soviets wanted a Japanese surrender at this point anyway, as they were poised to invade Manchuria. The Soviets were also aware of America's successful test of the atomic bomb. Joining the war effort became a low-risk calculation for them.

On July 27th, Prime Minister Suzuki met with members of the Japanese press to give a government response to the Potsdam declaration:

I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence (mokusatsu). We will do nothing but press on to the bitter end to bring about a successful completion of the war.

Even after the bombing of Nagasaki and the Soviet Declaration of War, a meeting of the Supreme Council (the Big Six) of the Japanese government split 3-3, with 3 unwilling to surrender unless there were no Allied occupation, and the Japanese handled their own war criminal trials and their own disarmament.

Upon hearing of the Emperor's plan to surrender, members of the army staged an aborted coup d'etat in hopes of continuing the fight.

As far as the use of the atomic bomb against Japan. a lot of scientists at Los Alamos were refugees from Europe, and when the Nazis surrendered they assumed it would not be used. The ostensible reason for the Manhattan Project, the defeat of Germany, had gone away.

Did the Generals want to use the bomb as a statement of American Power and a warning to the Soviets? I have no doubt that they did. Did many scientists who worked on the project feel betrayed? Yes.
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_ludwigm
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _ludwigm »

On August 9, 1945, at 11:02 a.m., Nagasaki was the target of the United States' second atomic bomb attack (and the second detonation of a plutonium bomb; the first was tested in central New Mexico, USA) when the north of the city was destroyed in less than a second, and an estimated 70,000 people were killed by the bomb codenamed "Fat Man." According to statistics found within Nagasaki Peace Park, the death toll from the atomic bombing totalled 73,884, including 2,000 Korean forced workers and eight POWs, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying due to fallout and other illness caused by radiation. This bomb was supposed to be more destructive than "Little Boy" but was dropped in a valley, and therefore did roughly the same amount of damage as Little Boy.

Image
Mushroom cloud from the atomic explosion over Nagasaki at 11:02 a.m, August 9, 1945

Did You get the chiasmus?


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Today, civilization's greatest challenge is to make sure that the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki remain singular events.
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- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_ludwigm
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _ludwigm »

USA's victory over Japan in the women's gold medal football last night was marred by a slew of racist tweets.

The 2-1 match had barely ended when the terms 'Pearl Harbor' and 'Japs' started trending on the micro blogging site.

Olympics fans tweeted how the U.S. victory had been 'payback for Peal Harbor' and made reference to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs dropped by the U.S. military in WWII.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z23DPu8v4f


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(The world we live in.)

I am who apologize in the name of the world outside of me.


American Heritage Dictionary: a·pol·o·gize (ə-pŏl'ə-jīz')
intr.v., -gized, -giz·ing, -giz·es.
IN THIS SENSE: 1. To make excuse for or regretful acknowledgment of a fault or offense.
DEFINITELY NOT THIS: 2. To make a formal defense or justification in speech or writing.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_krose
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _krose »

That's discouraging.

What the hell is wrong with these people?
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_Drifting
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _Drifting »

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that one day Twitter postings will start a war.

I'm glad the Daily Mail saw fit to publish the Twitter accounts spewing this type of bile.
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_ludwigm
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _ludwigm »

krose wrote:That's discouraging.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

For those, who are asking this, nothing. Absolutely nothing.

They are plain patriots.

Image
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_ludwigm
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _ludwigm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rain_%28novel%29
Image


bcspace wrote:The blames rests solely with the Japanese Imperial Government of the time which no longer exists so there is no need to sit around commiserating about it.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Bazooka
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Re: "My God!"

Post by _Bazooka »

deleted
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_MeDotOrg
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Re: black rain

Post by _MeDotOrg »

One fact of the physical world that never ceases to amaze me:

E=mc2 (Energy = Mass times the speed of light squared) basically means that a small amount of matter contains a large amount of energy.

The total amount of matter converted into energy for Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined:

About 2 grams.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_ludwigm
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Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: black rain

Post by _ludwigm »

MeDotOrg wrote:One fact of the physical world that never ceases to amaze me:

E=mc2 (Energy = Mass times the speed of light squared) basically means that a small amount of matter contains a large amount of energy.

The total amount of matter converted into energy for Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined:

About 2 grams.


Image

Ask Tsutomu Yamaguchi (山口 彊 ), who survived both grams...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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