BartBurk wrote:It depends when you believe the Catholic Church actually began. If you believe the Catholic Church actually began right away then it would definitely be the Catholic Church.
What do the Catholics themselves say? It seems they refer to Saint Peter as the original Pope. I believe they claim the organization in place at the time of the original apostles as their origin.
What we claim regarding Peter is a matter of faith. I have tried to prove the claim, but the 2nd and 3rd centuries are full of historical gaps. It is impossible to prove that infant baptism is historical except that infant baptism seems to be in place by the fourth century. Auricular confession can be assumed from one reading of the scripture, but it is difficult to find it documented in the history of the 2nd or 3rd centuries. I have felt a particular frustration in trying to bridge the gap from first century Christianity to what Catholicism claims in the fourth century. The Mormons dispute the history and because they do that they are willing to admit the Catholic Church is not the Whore of Babylon.
Drifting wrote:Does Ryan make serious gaffes every time he speaks in public too?
Does Romney really make SERIOOS gaffes EVERY TIME he speaks?
Does Ryan keep his money offshore and hide his tax returns?
Is it illegal to invest offshore? Do taxpayers who invest offshore pay US tax on their overseas income? Are there cumbersome IRS reporting requirements in order to make sure US persons investing abroad are reporting their income? Are there severe penalties for not filing and reporting overseas income? Let me answer for you in order.
No, Yes typically, Yes very much so, Yes very high penalties-$10,000 per required form if not files as well as criminal penalties.
If Romney invested offshore I am confident he filed the proper forms and paid the proper tax. Given the level of income he has his tax advisors would not be dumb enough to not comply properly since they could have stiff penalties as well.
Jason Bourne wrote:Is it illegal to invest offshore?
No, just politically stupid, which is strange for someone who has been running for a decade.
It just looks bad to a lot of regular people.
I don't think the regular people are going to care when they are paying almost $4/gallon for gas and the unemployment rate is going back up again while Obama guts Medicare.
krose wrote:No, just politically stupid, which is strange for someone who has been running for a decade.
But why is that? I think it is because it is portrayed to look that way. Look I have and IRA that primarily invests in stocks and mutual funds in Australia, China, Singapore, etc. I have in my 401k international stock funds that invest primarily in Europe ( I should have dumped those long ago). You may as well. I think it is silly to think it is politically stupid to invest offshore. We live in a small world really.
It just looks bad to a lot of regular people.
A lot looks bad to regular people because they buy into the tripe coming from others who want to make things look bad.
Reading over Robinson's essay again, he lists the attributes of the Whore of Babylon, the Great and Abominable Church:
The major characteristics of the great and abominable church described in 1 Nephi may be listed as follows:
It persecutes, tortures, and slays the Saints of God (see 1 Nephi 13:5). It seeks wealth and luxury (see 1 Nephi 13:7–8). It is characterized by sexual immorality (see 1 Nephi 13:7). It has excised plain and precious things from the scriptures (see 1 Nephi 13:26–29). It has dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people (see 1 Nephi 14:11). Its fate is to be consumed by a world war, when the nations it incites against the Saints war among themselves until the great and abominable church itself is destroyed (see 1 Nephi 22:13–14).
I don't think any of the above list necessarily implicates the Catholic Church. The members of the early church weren't slain by the Catholic Church, but by Rome. The early church after the apostles would not have been considered wealthy and was not characterized by sexual immorality. If anything the early Catholic Church was characterized by asceticism. The Catholic Church never had dominion over all of the earth -- not even a portion of it. The list more aptly describes the Roman government. Earlier in his essay Robinson makes clear that anciently the word church could have been used to describe a government such as the Roman Empire. It surely could be the Roman government went about destroying copies of Christian scriptures in its attempt to stamp out the faith. That Christianity survived in any form is a miracle of history. It is no wonder the modern LDS Church with a greater access to scholarship is inclined to disregard earlier identification of the Whore of Babylon with the Catholic Church.
madeleine wrote:I don't hold a view that a Catholic running mate transforms Mormonism into a Christian religion, cuz, it doesn't.
But who cares? A VP is just window dressing, unless he's a puppet master such as Cheney.
But of course on the catholic board, the Mormon faith was not a faith at all but a cult. And the antimormons were allowed to mock, bash and ridicule the LDS religion. What a catholic running mate does show is that a catholic and a Mormon can find points to agree. And that has been my point all along on the catholic taliban board before I was banned.
Now that board does have a problem. The catholic taliban have two choices: obama or romney. Most will choose romney.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Nobody at CAF has ever said that Mormons and Catholics can't work together. Nobody at CAF has ever said they hate individual Mormons.
Now, I want you to focus, because I am going to type very, very,slowly just for you. It is the Mormon theology, control/cult like tactics that nobody likes. Most individual Mormons are very nice people.
But I'm sure all of this is too complicated for you.
You seem confused when it comes to Mormonism. On the taliban board, the hostility toward Mormons and Mormonism were acute. To say that Mormons are nice people but they belong to a cult and that they lie for the lord is quite a laugh. But such is the logic on that board. But now with the romney ryan ticket the antimormons have a real problem on their hands. They will need to vote for a man who belongs to a cult. Now that is funny.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
"Ayn Rand was not anti-religious in the popular form of “spiritual but not religious”; she believed that any impulse to care about other people was either weak or disingenuous. Her version of economics and all of life celebrated only individual dominance as the driving force. I don’t think Paul Ryan — who says he got into politics because of reading Rand — believes this, but he like a large portion of the conservative movement has not resolved the inherent disconnect between their pure free market policies, based on this invisible hand mentality, and their professed religious values. In embracing Ayn Rand so wholeheartedly while insisting he’s also a devout Christian, Paul Ryan embodies this disconnect."
BartBurk wrote: Romney's was more about Ryan's good politics than Ryan's faith. I just hope they get elected.
Not exactly true. He was also chosen because he was a devout catholic too. The moral agreement was important.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
