Dan Vogel on Bushman?????s Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling

[_Kishkumen]

Brodie's book has its faults, but it is still the better biography of Joseph Smith in my opinion.

As much as I respect and admire Bushman, I feel the same way.

[_PrickKicker]

This book is a weird one,
it is the type of book that modern day prophets hate because it so honest that it's not helpful.

It talks about Josephs early history from being a what we would call these days a hustler...
-by wagering someone that he could find a dropped pin in amongst the straw strewn floor, he would then cover his face with his hat and magically find the pin, claiming that it was achieved by spirit guides, BUT more likely done with a piece of magnetic rock that he had found whilst digging wells.
Rumors spread and wealthy people began to fall for his tricks and contracted him to divine for buried treasure.
it covers Josephs ties to freemasonry and also highly educated religious relatives and eventually establishing his own religion set on world domination.

There is nothing new its just that BUSHMAN has written it from a Mormon point of view than the Tanners book 'Shadow or Reality.' written by apostates.

in all fairness, he tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, along with his own testimony and reasoning.

my dad read it and it made him stronger!... I read it and it made me weaker.

[Guest]

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[_Polygamy-Porter]

I don't agree with Vogel. I think you can believe in Joseph Smith's claims and still view him suspiciously and even as being a nincompoop or treasure seeker. Joseph Smith is riddled with inconsistencies. Many people have flaws and that is why anyone (believer or no) should take a skeptical view of what he's saying. It actually makes him somewhat endearing except when he's being not so endearing. And valuing Joseph Smith's insights isn't something that is necessarily tied to whether or not you believe he was telling the truth, but whether what he says makes sense and is reasonable and consistent with other sources (including inspiration from God). Which is really the point to Joseph Smith's experiences and insights after all.

So we have Bushman, a man who has a need to believe in Mormonism. He writes a book in a way that cannot disrespect that need of his to believe.

We have you, Tobin, another man who has a need to believe in Mormonism telling us the above.

And the OP, Mr. Vogel, who does not have a need to believe in Mormonism, and therefore able to give us an objective review of Bushman's subjective book.

[_Tobin]

I don't agree with Vogel. I think you can believe in Joseph Smith's claims and still view him suspiciously and even as being a nincompoop or treasure seeker. Joseph Smith is riddled with inconsistencies. Many people have flaws and that is why anyone (believer or no) should take a skeptical view of what he's saying. It actually makes him somewhat endearing except when he's being not so endearing. And valuing Joseph Smith's insights isn't something that is necessarily tied to whether or not you believe he was telling the truth, but whether what he says makes sense and is reasonable and consistent with other sources (including inspiration from God). Which is really the point to Joseph Smith's experiences and insights after all.

So we have Bushman, a man who has a need to believe in Mormonism. He writes a book in a way that cannot disrespect that need of his to believe.

We have you, Tobin, another man who has a need to believe in Mormonism telling us the above.

And the OP, Mr. Vogel, who does not have a need to believe in Mormonism, and therefore able to give us an objective review of Bushman's subjective book.

I don't need to believe Joseph Smith out of some set of wishful thinking or need to look over my shoulder and worry about my membership in the Mormon Church. I'm compelled to believe Joseph Smith because I have experienced something similar in my life. That should be the basis that one should use to believe Joseph Smith in fact. And simply because I do believe Joseph Smith, that doesn't mean I'm any less objective about him than Vogel, who doesn't believe Joseph Smith.