The Mormon/Catholic ticket

[_hobo1512]

te]
LMAO.

Again, he was suspended, not banned.............LOL

A lifetime suspension!



At first I was suspended for two years...

Suspensions can, and are often lifted. Bannings....not so much.

Again, a case of a Mormon co-opting a word. Using your own definitions.

[_hobo1512]

Whine Me,

1. You made the statement that Ryan was chosen as the VP running mate because he is Catholic. Where is your proof?

2. You made the statement that BY "allowed" the Catholic Cathedral in SLC to be built. Where is your proof?

[_why me]

Whine Me,

1. You made the statement that Ryan was chosen as the VP running mate because he is Catholic. Where is your proof?

2. You made the statement that BY "allowed" the Catholic Cathedral in Salt Lake City to be built. Where is your proof?

Did you read the link that I sent. Here let me give it to you:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... tml?pg=all

During his forum address at Brigham Young University on Feb. 23, Francis Cardinal George, head of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, mentioned last year's participation by President Thomas S. Monson and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in the centennial celebrations for Salt Lake City's Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine. He wondered aloud whether Brigham Young and Lawrence Scanlan, the first Catholic bishop of Utah, would have been shocked at such cordial relations.The relationship between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Catholic Church has obviously grown closer during recent decades, and not merely in Utah. The two churches increasingly work together on social issues, for example, and have long cooperated on humanitarian projects. But I suspect that President Young and Bishop Scanlan would have been less shocked than Cardinal George assumed. There is a story here that few Catholics and Latter-day Saints know.By the late 1860s, Mormon isolation in Utah was ending. Jewish merchants and businessmen arrived, for instance, as early as 1854. Strong Jewish-Mormon friendships grew, and Brigham Young more than once opened Mormon church buildings to Jewish religious services. In their turn, Catholics first came to Utah in 1862, as members of the California Volunteers. In 1866, when Father Edward Kelly sought a place to celebrate Mass, Mormon leaders permitted him to use the old tabernacle on today's Temple Square, and Brigham Young helped him to obtain clear title to land for the first Catholic church in the city. On May 10, 1869, the Union and Central Pacific Railroads met at Promontory Summit, not far from Brigham City, Utah, thus creating the first transcontinental railroad in American history and, with this, non-Mormon denominations began to establish themselves even more securely in Utah Territory. Though Catholics and Latter-day Saints differed theologically, they were generally friendly with one another. Thus, for example, not long after then-Father Scanlan arrived in Utah in 1873, he was invited by Mormon leaders in St. George, Utah, to use their tabernacle for worship. However, he feared that some of the liturgy would need to be omitted since it called for a choir singing in Latin. But he was soon surprised to discover that the director of the St. George Tabernacle's choir had ordered the appropriate music and was preparing his group to perform it, in Latin, in two weeks. Accordingly, on May 18,1873 a Catholic high Mass was sung by a Mormon choir in the St. George Tabernacle. Plainly, although none can deny some harsh rhetoric over the years, Mormon respect for Catholics long predates the 2009 centennial of the Cathedral of the Madeleine. In fact, it dates to the days of Joseph Smith himself. Referring to the mob burning of the Ursuline Convent near Boston in 1834, Joseph remarked:"The early settlers of Boston . . . who had fled from their mother country to avoid persecution and death, soon became so lost to principles of justice and religious liberty as to whip and hang the Baptist and the Quaker, who, like themselves, had fled from tyranny to a land of freedom; and the Fathers of Salem, from 1691 to 1693, whipped, imprisoned, tortured, and hung many of their citizens for supposed witchcraft; and quite recently, while boasting of her light and knowledge, of her laws and religion, as surpassed by none on earth, has New England been guilty of burning a Catholic convent in the vicinity of Charlestown, and of scattering the inmates to the four winds; yes, in sight of the very spot where the fire of the American Independence was first kindled, where a monument is now erecting in memory of the battle of Bunker Hill, and the fate of the immortal Warren, who bled, who died on those sacred heights, to purchase religious liberty for his country; in sight of this very spot, have the religionists of the nineteenth century demolished a noble brick edifice, hurling its inhabitants forth upon a cold, unfeeling world for protection and subsistence.""The old Catholic church traditions are worth more than all you have said," Joseph told his followers in a sermon delivered less than two weeks before he himself was murdered by a mob. A strong foundation for friendship and respect toward Catholics was laid down in the earliest years of Mormonism.

The antimormon catholics should be ashamed of themselves on the catholic board. No one wishes to recognize what is in this article. Why don't you post it on the catholic board and initiate a good discussion.

[_why me]

Whine Me,

1. You made the statement that Ryan was chosen as the VP running mate because he is Catholic. Where is your proof?

Now hobo come close to the computer...that's right...come close...I want to whisper something in your ear...are you ready, hobo....ready?...

Romney needs the catholic vote.

[_hobo1512]

Whine Me,

1. You made the statement that Ryan was chosen as the VP running mate because he is Catholic. Where is your proof?

2. You made the statement that BY "allowed" the Catholic Cathedral in Salt Lake City to be built. Where is your proof?

Did you read the link that I sent. Here let me give it to you:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... tml?pg=all

During his forum address at Brigham Young University on Feb. 23, Francis Cardinal George, head of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, mentioned last year's participation by President Thomas S. Monson and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in the centennial celebrations for Salt Lake City's Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine. He wondered aloud whether Brigham Young and Lawrence Scanlan, the first Catholic bishop of Utah, would have been shocked at such cordial relations.The relationship between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Catholic Church has obviously grown closer during recent decades, and not merely in Utah. The two churches increasingly work together on social issues, for example, and have long cooperated on humanitarian projects. But I suspect that President Young and Bishop Scanlan would have been less shocked than Cardinal George assumed. There is a story here that few Catholics and Latter-day Saints know.By the late 1860s, Mormon isolation in Utah was ending. Jewish merchants and businessmen arrived, for instance, as early as 1854. Strong Jewish-Mormon friendships grew, and Brigham Young more than once opened Mormon church buildings to Jewish religious services. In their turn, Catholics first came to Utah in 1862, as members of the California Volunteers. In 1866, when Father Edward Kelly sought a place to celebrate Mass, Mormon leaders permitted him to use the old tabernacle on today's Temple Square, and Brigham Young helped him to obtain clear title to land for the first Catholic church in the city. On May 10, 1869, the Union and Central Pacific Railroads met at Promontory Summit, not far from Brigham City, Utah, thus creating the first transcontinental railroad in American history and, with this, non-Mormon denominations began to establish themselves even more securely in Utah Territory. Though Catholics and Latter-day Saints differed theologically, they were generally friendly with one another. Thus, for example, not long after then-Father Scanlan arrived in Utah in 1873, he was invited by Mormon leaders in St. George, Utah, to use their tabernacle for worship. However, he feared that some of the liturgy would need to be omitted since it called for a choir singing in Latin. But he was soon surprised to discover that the director of the St. George Tabernacle's choir had ordered the appropriate music and was preparing his group to perform it, in Latin, in two weeks. Accordingly, on May 18,1873 a Catholic high Mass was sung by a Mormon choir in the St. George Tabernacle. Plainly, although none can deny some harsh rhetoric over the years, Mormon respect for Catholics long predates the 2009 centennial of the Cathedral of the Madeleine. In fact, it dates to the days of Joseph Smith himself. Referring to the mob burning of the Ursuline Convent near Boston in 1834, Joseph remarked:"The early settlers of Boston . . . who had fled from their mother country to avoid persecution and death, soon became so lost to principles of justice and religious liberty as to whip and hang the Baptist and the Quaker, who, like themselves, had fled from tyranny to a land of freedom; and the Fathers of Salem, from 1691 to 1693, whipped, imprisoned, tortured, and hung many of their citizens for supposed witchcraft; and quite recently, while boasting of her light and knowledge, of her laws and religion, as surpassed by none on earth, has New England been guilty of burning a Catholic convent in the vicinity of Charlestown, and of scattering the inmates to the four winds; yes, in sight of the very spot where the fire of the American Independence was first kindled, where a monument is now erecting in memory of the battle of Bunker Hill, and the fate of the immortal Warren, who bled, who died on those sacred heights, to purchase religious liberty for his country; in sight of this very spot, have the religionists of the nineteenth century demolished a noble brick edifice, hurling its inhabitants forth upon a cold, unfeeling world for protection and subsistence.""The old Catholic church traditions are worth more than all you have said," Joseph told his followers in a sermon delivered less than two weeks before he himself was murdered by a mob. A strong foundation for friendship and respect toward Catholics was laid down in the earliest years of Mormonism.

The antimormon catholics should be ashamed of themselves on the catholic board. No one wishes to recognize what is in this article. Why don't you post it on the catholic board and initiate a good discussion.

Deseret is hardly a reliable source. It also doesn't explain how BY "helped" the Catholic Church obtain the property 13 years after his death.

"The property on which the cathedral sits was purchased in 1890 for $35,000. The cost of the cathedral construction itself was $344,000."

http://www.utcotm.org/visit/history
A fluff piece hardly constitutes proof. Try finding a legitimate source. (Like that is going to happen)
This is a perfect example of trying to use a false prophet to proof another false prophet correct.

Still waiting on your Romney-Ryan proof.

[_hobo1512]

Whine Me,

1. You made the statement that Ryan was chosen as the VP running mate because he is Catholic. Where is your proof?

Now hobo come close to the computer...that's right...come close...I want to whisper something in your ear...are you ready, hobo....ready?...

Romney needs the catholic vote.

Tell you what, I'm going to help you out. I will type extra slow, just for you.

That has nothing to do with the question asked. You stated that Ryan was chosen because he was Catholic. Where is your proof?

I'll let you in on a bigger secret. He needs someone on his ticket that isn't as stupid as he is, and can fight off budget/money questions. It doesn't need to be a Catholic.

[_Drifting]

He needs someone on his ticket that isn't as stupid as he is...

So...he had about 7 billion potential candidates...

[_hobo1512]

He needs someone on his ticket that isn't as stupid as he is...

So...he had about 7 billion potential candidates...

At least!

Romney reminds me of when you go fishing, and toss a fish up on shore. If flips and flops and does anything it can to save itself, but rarely does.

[_BartBurk]

Regarding the Trinity, it is a doctrine which we Catholics affirm to be a mystery that we can't completely understand. If the Mormon understanding seems to differ from ours I wouldn't call it a big deal since we don't completely understand it.

That being said, the Mormon scriptures explicitly teach that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three individuals who exist as one eternal God. The Mormons seem to misuse the term Beings -- in reality when they are using the term Being they seem to be using it in a way that we would use persons. At the same time they understand there is a oneness about the three individuals which make up the Godhead. This is undeniable. Their idea of oneness would seem to me to mean that it is not incorrect for them to use the word Trinity to describe it. We can't really explain the oneness of God any better than they can.

Of course we get into a more difficult road when they start believing God had a Father, an idea which comes from what seems to be Joseph Smith's last sermon before he was martyred. It isn't King Follett, but the Sermon in the Grove that comes up with this idea. That doesn't seem to be a candidate for canonization any time soon. It is speculation which really doesn't get anyone very far since it doesn't seem to be a direct revelation from God. The logic Joseph is reported to have used in that sermon falls apart as soon as he incorrectly interprets Revelation 1:6. The interpretation is obvious nonsense which really makes the entire sermon questionable. The verse in context says:

5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The idea that God the Father's Father is referred to in verse 6 is simply flawed. It obviously means "hath made us kings and priests unto God and Jesus' Father" or perhaps "God, Jesus' Father. So the sermon in the grove (or at least the transcription of it) is debatable from the outset.

Which at least leaves me believing that Mormons have as much right to use the term Trinity as any other Christian. Since it is not a scriptural term Mormons tend to avoid it -- the scriptural explanation that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one Eternal God would seem to suffice to help us understand they believe in God's essential unity.

[_BartBurk]

That has nothing to do with the question asked. You stated that Ryan was chosen because he was Catholic. Where is your proof?

I'll let you in on a bigger secret. He needs someone on his ticket that isn't as stupid as he is, and can fight off budget/money questions. It doesn't need to be a Catholic.

Ryan was chosen because he is the smartest one available -- it had nothing to do with him being Catholic. It shows Romney is more interested in getting smart folks around him than choosing someone simply to satisfy someone's idea of a good politician. Romney is simply a great CEO and he proved it with the Ryan pick.