Ann Romney's testimony

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_palerobber
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _palerobber »

Darth J wrote:So, palerobber.......

What do you think about the LDS Church building a temple at Mountain Meadows? You'd agree that would be a classy move, right?


well, that question isn't very relevant since, as i imagine you know, the planned Park51 is not "at" Ground Zero but is rather 2.5 city blocks away with no line of sight between the two. but as it turns out the closest church to the MM site is already an LDS chapel, and no, i'm not offended by that.

but here's a better question:
In 1996 a Christian extremist planted a bomb in Centennial Olympic Park in downtown Atlanta GA that killed 2 and injured 111. If a mainline Christian group (eight years later) wanted to build a church two or three blocks away from the park, you'd agree that would be a classless move, right?
Last edited by Guest on Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Sethbag
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Sethbag »

Jill Stein - 84%
Barack - 83%
Gary Johnson - 76%
Ron Paul - 66%
Mitt Romney - 62%
Jimmy "The Hair" McMillan - 55%
Virgil Good - 41%

Democratic - 87%
Green - 78%
Libertarian - 62%
Republican - 59%
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_beastie
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _beastie »

Now Romney is claiming he'll help the elderly and poor more than Obama, building this falsehood on the lie that Obama is taking money from Medicare that Romney would leave intact. (Leaving out many crucial facts, of course)

Sometimes I think he's telling outrageous lies in his ads and stump speeches in order to try to provoke Obama into getting angry, so then he can paint Obama as an angry, hateful man who needs to go back to Chicago.

Or maybe this is his twist on the old Rove tactic of taking your opponent's strength and turning it into a weakness. I don't know, but it seems to me he runs the risk of alienating the teabaggers who'd rather see the elderly and poor fend for themselves.

I do wonder if Romney believes all these lies are justified due to the fact that he needs to save this country. It's ok to say anything to get in office and fulfill his calling.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Cinnamon Bear Head
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Cinnamon Bear Head »

Candidates you side with...

99%
Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson

on domestic policy, immigration, foreign policy, healthcare, science, economic, social, and environmental issues

86%
Ron Paul
Ron Paul

on domestic policy, foreign policy, healthcare, economic, and environmental issues

73%
Jimmy McMillan
Jimmy McMillan

on domestic policy, foreign policy, economic, and healthcare issues

67%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney

on social, economic, and environmental issues

31%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama

on science issues

58%
American Voters

on domestic policy, foreign policy, immigration, science, and healthcare issues.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Kishkumen »

I was really surprised by the results I got:

95%
Jill Stein
on science, foreign policy, economic, social, environmental, healthcare, and immigration issues

81%
Barack Obama
on science, social, immigration, economic, and environmental issues

72%
Stewart Alexander
on social, economic, immigration, and environmental issues

30%
Ron Paul
on healthcare and domestic policy issues

24%
Mitt Romney
no major issues

57%
Florida Voters
on science, foreign policy, social, healthcare, immigration, and environmental issues.

60%
American Voters
on science, foreign policy, social, healthcare, immigration, and environmental issues.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_krose
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _krose »

I'm skipping over reading the last half of this thread (for now) to answer Seth Payne's question about why I resent Romney.

He is the most extreme example I have seen of a politician who will say whatever he thinks it will take to get him elected. He has taken almost every position available on nearly every issue. He ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts, then ran to the right of Santorum in this year's primaries.

But there was one action of his that turned me from simply opposing him based on his views to believing that he is a contemptible human being. That was his so-called "Kennedy moment," the speech he gave about religion in 2008.

What he did was far from being anything like JFK, who proclaimed his independence from Vatican influence, and affirmed his strong support for the principle of church-state separation. That would have been a very positive tactic to Romney to emulate.

But no. Romney's version of a speech to encourage religious tolerance (for Mormons and everyone else, which he was in an ideal position to advocate) turned out to be an appeal to the Christians who believe he is not one of them, that they should join him in united opposition against their common enemies, the atheists and secularists. What a statesman.

He revealed himself at that time to be a gigantic opportunistic tool, and he has done nothing since then that makes me change my mind about his character.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_Kishkumen
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Kishkumen »

krose wrote:I'm skipping over reading the last half of this thread (for now) to answer Seth Payne's question about why I resent Romney.

He is the most extreme example I have seen of a politician who will say whatever he thinks it will take to get him elected. He has taken almost every position available on nearly every issue. He ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts, then ran to the right of Santorum in this year's primaries.

But there was one action of his that turned me from simply opposing him based on his views to believing that he is a contemptible human being. That was his so-called "Kennedy moment," the speech he gave about religion in 2008.

What he did was far from being anything like JFK, who proclaimed his independence from Vatican influence, and affirmed his strong support for the principle of church-state separation. That would have been a very positive tactic to Romney to emulate.

But no. Romney's version of a speech to encourage religious tolerance (for Mormons and everyone else, which he was in an ideal position to advocate) turned out to be an appeal to the Christians who believe he is not one of them, that they should join him in united opposition against their common enemies, the atheists and secularists. What a statesman.

He revealed himself at that time to be a gigantic opportunistic tool, and he has done nothing since then that makes me change my mind about his character.


So well put, krose. I should print this and post it on my lawn.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Darth J
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Darth J »

palerobber wrote:
Darth J wrote:So, palerobber.......

What do you think about the LDS Church building a temple at Mountain Meadows? You'd agree that would be a classy move, right?


well, that question isn't very relevant since, as i imagine you know, the planned Park51 is not "at" Ground Zero but is rather 2.5 city blocks away with no line of sight between the two.


Yes, it is relevant, because it has to do with the reasons people object to the location of religious buildings, which is what your comment was about. There are current descendants of the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre who have been offended at the way the LDS Church has handled the site where the massacre occurred. These descendants pushed for years until the site was designated a national landmark.

but as it turns out the closest church to the MM site is already an LDS chapel, and no, i'm not offended by that.


Huh. The closest church to a given point in southern Utah is an LDS Church. Go figure! That's not the same as the Church announcing the Mountain Meadows Temple. And the Church's treatment of the site may not offend you, but it does bother people whose ancestors were murdered. It also bothers them that the Church performed baptisms for the dead for the victims.

but here's a better question:
In 1996 a Christian extremist planted a bomb in Centennial Olympic Park in downtown Atlanta GA that killed 2 and injured 111. If a mainline Christian group (eight years later) wanted to build a church two or three blocks away from the park, you'd agree that would be a classless move, right?


That's not a better question. That's the same issue with different facts. Yes, I can understand if secularists or non-Christians would see that move as at best somewhat oblivious. I myself would not feel that way, but that doesn't mean there is no understandable reason why someone else would.

You're also moving pretty far afield from your original premise, which is that people in Massachusetts opposing the location of the "Boston" temple are analogous to people in New York City opposing a mosque being built a few blocks from Ground Zero:

palerobber wrote: one more thing that particularly disappointed me about Romney was when he came out against Muslims being allowed to build a mosque in lower Manhattan, despite the similar trouble he had faced in Boston trying to get a Mormon temple built. it was just stunning hypocrisy, not to mention a violation of his own 11th Article of Faith.


No, the opposition to an LDS temple in one's neighborhood is not "similar" to the opposition of a mosque near Ground Zero. It's not a matter of whether you agree with people's reasons for feeling the way they do, but why they feel the way they do. Whether right or wrong for feeling the way they do, people opposed to the location of that mosque are not doing so for arbitrary reasons. They are opposed because it seems insensitive to them when the 9/11 attacks were motivated by Muslim extremism. That isn't "similar" to why people don't want an LDS temple by their house. The latter is motivated by concerns about traffic, zoning, property values, and having a great big brightly-lit trophy building right by where you live. "Opposition to a mosque near Ground Zero because Muslim terrorists killed hundreds of people a few blocks away and destroyed an American landmark" is not analogous to "opposition to an LDS temple in my neighborhood because tons of people are going to start driving down my street and this giant trophy building is going to dominate the landscape and will be lit up all night long."

And I don't think this was hypocrisy on Romney's part, because hypocrisy means having a double standard in how you apply your principles. Mitt Romney is a hollow opportunist who doesn't really believe in anything except Mitt Romney. Since he has no real principles, it is not possible for him to be a hypocrite.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Kishkumen wrote:
And, of course, he did so to dodge paying taxes.

Big surprise.



Perhaps. But you also need to keep in mind if he was a non resident of Mass. he was a resident of Utah. One state is going to tax him as a resident. I do not know which state taxes more. My guess is not Utah but the rate there is high. The property tax issue may have been a motivation as well.
_Blixa
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Re: Ann Romney's testimony

Post by _Blixa »

EAllusion wrote:
beastie wrote: I suppose part of the reason I'm so harsh on Mitt is that I only scored a 13% with him.

That's impressive. I don't think I've seen anyone score that low with anyone before.


I scored a 4% with Romney, but beastie still beat me with her Virgil Goode 2%....
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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