Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Racer]

Forget Book of Mormon anachronisms, DNA, lack of archeologic evidence, and blatant KJV plagerisms. Laban's death gives the Book of Mormon a black eye in credibility.

1. Dude is ****faced and passed out. If you have ever dealt with anyone as inebriated as Laban was described in the Book of Mormon, you would know that it wouldn't take too much effort or protest to disrobe Laban. No murder necessary.

2. Which of the following scenerios is less likely to trigger an all out manhunt for Nephi and his brothers in the morning?

A. Laban wakes up naked with a hangover and chalks it up to a night of hard partying.
B. Laban's guards discover their master's naked, headless corpse in the street in a pool of blood and gore. The blood trail leads straight to the vault. "Hey, weren't Lehi's sons here last
night causing a commotion about wanting Laban's plates?" The alarm is sounded, and its all hands on deck to apprehend these violent criminals.

3. If Nephi had to kill Laban, why not just strangle or smother him? He was incapacitated, so it would be simple. The human body contains 6 qts of blood. That is one hell of a mess. Are you telling me none of that blood sprayed all over Nephi or soaked Laban's clothes? So, Nephi put on those disgusting bloody clothes and Zoram didn't even flinch when what he thought was his boss approaching him with an ass load of congealed blood all over his body? Zoram: "Let me lead you to the vaults sir, nothing seems out of the ordinary here."

4. Nephi was commanded to kill Laban because according to God it is better to let one man perish than let a nation dwindle and perish in unbelief (1Nephi 4:13). If this was the case, why didn't God command Nephi to kill Laman and Lemuel? Because of the Lamanites, didn't the Nephites get wiped out and a whole nation perished and dwindled in unbelief? So, in the end killing Laban didn't prevent a nation from perishing and dwindling in unbelief. Didn't God forsee this? Oops, so much for omnipotence.

[_Drifting]

4. Nephi was commanded to kill Laban because according to God it is better to let one man perish than let a nation dwindle and perish in unbelief (1Nephi 4:13). If this was the case, why didn't God command Nephi to kill Laman and Lemuel? Because of the Lamanites, didn't the Nephites get wiped out and a whole nation perished and dwindled in unbelief? So, in the end killing Laban didn't prevent a nation from perishing and dwindling in unbelief. Didn't God forsee this? Oops, so much for omnipotence.

This is a very good observation of yet another divine inconsistency, the trademark of Mormonism...

[_MCB]

The Book of Mormon is also inconsistent. See Helaman 9

[20] Saying unto him: Thou art confederate; who is this man that hath done this murder? Now tell us, and acknowledge thy fault; saying, Behold here is money; and also we will grant unto thee thy life if thou wilt tell us, and acknowledge the agreement which thou hast made with him.

[21] But Nephi said unto them: O ye fools, ye uncircumcised of heart, ye blind, and ye stiffnecked people, do ye know how long the Lord your God will suffer you that ye shall go on in this your way of sin?

[22] O ye ought to begin to howl and mourn, because of the great destruction which at this time doth await you, except ye shall repent.

[23] Behold ye say that I have agreed with a man that he should murder Seezoram, our chief judge. But behold, I say unto you, that this is because I have testified unto you that ye might know concerning this thing; yea, even for a witness unto you, that I did know of the wickedness and abominations which are among you.

[24] And because I have done this, ye say that I have agreed with a man that he should do this thing; yea, because I showed unto you this sign ye are angry with me, and seek to destroy my life.

[25] And now behold, I will show unto you another sign, and see if ye will in this thing seek to destroy me.

[26] Behold I say unto you: Go to the house of Seantum, who is the brother of Seezoram, and say unto him --

[27] Has Nephi, the pretended prophet, who doth prophesy so much evil concerning this people, agreed with thee, in the which ye have murdered Seezoram, who is your brother?

[28] And behold, he shall say unto you, Nay.

[29] And ye shall say unto him: Have ye murdered your brother?

[30] And he shall stand with fear, and wist not what to say. And behold, he shall deny unto you; and he shall make as if he were astonished; nevertheless, he shall declare unto you that he is innocent.

[31] But behold, ye shall examine him, and ye shall find blood upon the skirts of his cloak.

[32] And when ye have seen this, ye shall say: From whence cometh this blood? Do we not know that it is the blood of your brother?

[33] And then shall he tremble, and shall look pale, even as if death had come upon him.

[34] And then shall ye say: Because of this fear and this paleness which has come upon your face, behold, we know that thou art guilty.

[35] And then shall greater fear come upon him; and then shall he confess unto you, and deny no more that he has done this murder.

[36] And then shall he say unto you, that I, Nephi, know nothing concerning the matter save it were given unto me by the power of God. And then shall ye know that I am an honest man, and that I am sent unto you from God.

[37] And it came to pass that they went and did, even according as Nephi had said unto them. And behold, the words which he had said were true; for according to the words he did deny; and also according to the words he did confess.

[38] And he was brought to prove that he himself was the very murderer, insomuch that the five were set at liberty, and also was Nephi.

Refer back to viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25363

And Henry Lake said:

One time, when he was reading to me the tragic account of Laban, I pointed out to him what I considered an inconsistency, which he promised to correct; but by referring to the Book of Mormon, I find to my surprise that it stands there just as he read it to me then. --

http://www.truthandgrace.com/StatementLake1.ht

Note that Henry perceived Laban's story as tragic-- as it must have been in the original.

Further, in the book of Judith, from the Deuterocanon, the Tanners found extensive parallels with Judith's beheading of a drunken Holofernes, which was a justified assassination. In the book I just found, about the Munster Anabaptists, a woman tried to re-enact that story, but was caught.

??????

[_zeezrom]

How in the hell are you going to describe suffocation or strangulation in KJV English?

[_MCB]

How in the hell are you going to describe suffocation or strangulation in KJV English?

Thou didst put a cord around his neck, and tighten it unto death.

[_Juggler Vain]

Are you telling me none of that blood sprayed all over Nephi or soaked Laban's clothes? So, Nephi put on those disgusting bloody clothes and Zoram didn't even flinch when what he thought was his boss approaching him with an ass load of congealed blood all over his body? Zoram: "Let me lead you to the vaults sir, nothing seems out of the ordinary here."

This is what it must have looked like:



Here's another version:

[_Turkey]

I wonder, had Laban merely declined to trade his plates to the sons of Lehi, without attempting to kill and rob them, if the spirit would still have commanded Nephi to slay Laban in order to get the plates.

It was convenient that he turned out to be such a villain. I might have felt sorry for him otherwise.

[_just me]

4. Nephi was commanded to kill Laban because according to God it is better to let one man perish than let a nation dwindle and perish in unbelief (1Nephi 4:13). If this was the case, why didn't God command Nephi to kill Laman and Lemuel? Because of the Lamanites, didn't the Nephites get wiped out and a whole nation perished and dwindled in unbelief? So, in the end killing Laban didn't prevent a nation from perishing and dwindling in unbelief. Didn't God forsee this? Oops, so much for omnipotence.

This is a very good observation of yet another divine inconsistency, the trademark of Mormonism...

This is the same reason given by Caiaphas to kill Jesus, by the way. So in addition to it not even working it kinda makes Laban a savior. And borrows from the New Testament.

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

[_zeezrom]

How in the hell are you going to describe suffocation or strangulation in KJV English?

Thou didst put a cord around his neck, and tighten it unto death.

Huh. That is great

[_angsty]

When I got to the whole killing of Laban story the last time (Aug, 2005), I just had to stop. It occurred to me, as Racer pointed out, that it really didn't make sense, within the context of the narrative, for a just God to command Laban's death. It appears unnecessary, arbitrary and immoral.

Plus, in reality, we don't celebrate people who are willing to listen to "promptings from God" that lead them to behead people, or sacrifice their children on altars. We lock those people up (if we're lucky). It is genuinely disturbing that children are taught these stories from a young age. It's disturbing that they are taught to celebrate and aspire to the kind of "faith" that is willing to manifest behavior that is essentially indistinguishable from murderous psychopathology.