Your best mate informs you that your wife is having a long term affair with the pool boy. You cannot prove it false. Does it make sense to be angry?
why me wrote:No. I would find out if it is true. And if so, I will get angry. But I can't get angry without proof. But I can have feelings of mistrust among other things.
So what kind of proof would you require to prove it true other than that gut feeling of mistrust you mentioned?
Bumping for why me
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
When we speak of mistrust or proof of a spouse cheating in a relationship we imagine pictures or witnesses, maybe a credit card receipt or some hint that would cause further investigation. Some people faced with this situation just don't want to know and they look the other way. And with national statistics we can be pretty sure that most hints of a relationship will turn out to be true. It is rare indeed to be the lucky one in a faithful relationship.
But how can we contrast that worldly situation with information passed down from God through a prophet? There is a third party that does not fit the mold of worldly forms. The other problem we have is the wide range of interpretation that raw information is subject to once it arrives on this planet. Even if a message arrives from God it is dismantled and twisted into many forms that I am sure were not part of the original message.
Think of it this way. Imagine yourself in a chair and there are two groups of people talking to you. One group says that the words of a man who calls himself a prophet are true. The other group says that the words of the man are false and he is no prophet. The two sets of people argue and bring up what they feel is supporting data for you to make up your mind one way or the other. If you allow either group to influence you then you are lost. If you think God has given messages before and you wish to know if this new one is from Him then ask Him. Ignore the two groups because they have their own ideas about the message and both may be wrong. You must go to the source. It may take time. Maybe a year or two, maybe more. I have many questions and I receive few answers. Some have taken years. I am in no rush to know. I am open to all truth I receive on whatever time system God has. I figure that when I tell God I have to have it now I get placed at the end of the line. So for me part of accepting God in faith is also accepting His ways. That means I wait. For those who don't wait you will instead seek the advice of men. Always a bad choice.
Franktalk wrote:Think of it this way. Imagine yourself in a chair and there are two groups of people talking to you. One group says that the words of a man who calls himself a prophet are true. The other group says that the words of the man are false and he is no prophet. The two sets of people argue and bring up what they feel is supporting data for you to make up your mind one way or the other. If you allow either group to influence you then you are lost. If you think God has given messages before and you wish to know if this new one is from Him then ask Him. Ignore the two groups because they have their own ideas about the message and both may be wrong. You must go to the source.
But why are they wrong, and how do you think you can be sure you are getting the right message, or that there is a message coming from some divine being. If they can get it wrong, so can you. Again most here tried or thought they were getting some message only to realize now that they just convinced themselves, and probably think you are still in that phase(and may never get out).
Themis wrote:But why are they wrong, and how do you think you can be sure you are getting the right message, or that there is a message coming from some divine being. If they can get it wrong, so can you. Again most here tried or thought they were getting some message only to realize now that they just convinced themselves, and probably think you are still in that phase(and may never get out).
My faith is based on faith. If I based faith on evidence it would not be faith. It is that simple Themis. I understand and accept that many need something more to believe. To those I wish them well. Their path is a most difficult one. If my faith was based on some argument or some piece of evidence then my faith would be shallow. Because the next good argument or the next thing unburied by men would change what I believe. This is how science works. It is based on observations and data. Faith in God is not found in the senses that are part of this world. If someone does rest on that kind of worldly foundation then they will blow in the wind never having anything solid to hang onto. For the things of this world are not solid. It is an illusion that many have been deceived by. This whole life is but a small slice of a much greater reality. Until you see that then you are trapped by this world and are doomed to stay here. Where you see me as the one who needs to open their eyes so they can see from where I sit it is you who needs to open your eyes and see more than the limited set of things you accept.
Franktalk wrote:If you think God has given messages before and you wish to know if this new one is from Him then ask Him. Ignore the two groups because they have their own ideas about the message and both may be wrong. You must go to the source. It may take time. Maybe a year or two, maybe more. I have many questions and I receive few answers. Some have taken years.
No one said self-delusion would happen over night.
Themis wrote:But why are they wrong, and how do you think you can be sure you are getting the right message, or that there is a message coming from some divine being. If they can get it wrong, so can you. Again most here tried or thought they were getting some message only to realize now that they just convinced themselves, and probably think you are still in that phase(and may never get out).
My faith is based on faith. If I based faith on evidence it would not be faith. It is that simple Themis. I understand and accept that many need something more to believe. To those I wish them well. Their path is a most difficult one. If my faith was based on some argument or some piece of evidence then my faith would be shallow. Because the next good argument or the next thing unburied by men would change what I believe. This is how science works. It is based on observations and data. Faith in God is not found in the senses that are part of this world. If someone does rest on that kind of worldly foundation then they will blow in the wind never having anything solid to hang onto. For the things of this world are not solid. It is an illusion that many have been deceived by. This whole life is but a small slice of a much greater reality. Until you see that then you are trapped by this world and are doomed to stay here. Where you see me as the one who needs to open their eyes so they can see from where I sit it is you who needs to open your eyes and see more than the limited set of things you accept.
Franktalk, could I interest you in buying this bridge in Brooklyn? Now, don't ask to see the deed by which I own this bridge. Rather, this bridge will be more meaningful to you if you hope for my ownership, without seeing a deed. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not true that I own the bridge. Keep in mind, there is a possibility that I do. After all, you haven't seen the deed to the bridge to know that I don't own it. So your hope is well founded. And, because you did not ask to see my deed, the bridge will be more valuable to you. I only ask that you give me 10% of your increase for the rest of your life. That's a bargain, after all. Even though I am giving you this bridge, and even making it more valuable by not letting you see the deed proving my ownership, I won't ask for more than 10%. Am I not the most benevolent being you've ever met?
Themis wrote:But why are they wrong, and how do you think you can be sure you are getting the right message, or that there is a message coming from some divine being. If they can get it wrong, so can you. Again most here tried or thought they were getting some message only to realize now that they just convinced themselves, and probably think you are still in that phase(and may never get out).
My faith is based on faith. If I based faith on evidence it would not be faith. It is that simple Themis. I understand and accept that many need something more to believe. To those I wish them well. Their path is a most difficult one. If my faith was based on some argument or some piece of evidence then my faith would be shallow. Because the next good argument or the next thing unburied by men would change what I believe. This is how science works. It is based on observations and data. Faith in God is not found in the senses that are part of this world. If someone does rest on that kind of worldly foundation then they will blow in the wind never having anything solid to hang onto. For the things of this world are not solid. It is an illusion that many have been deceived by. This whole life is but a small slice of a much greater reality. Until you see that then you are trapped by this world and are doomed to stay here. Where you see me as the one who needs to open their eyes so they can see from where I sit it is you who needs to open your eyes and see more than the limited set of things you accept.
You are describing blind faith, and I certainly agree that religious faith tends to be very blind, which brings up the issue again how one knows they are getting it right. You have just admitted you don't know. My faith is based on my faith. LOL So you have no foundation at all for your beliefs?
sock puppet wrote:Franktalk, could I interest you in buying this bridge in Brooklyn? Now, don't ask to see the deed by which I own this bridge. Rather, this bridge will be more meaningful to you if you hope for my ownership, without seeing a deed. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not true that I own the bridge. Keep in mind, there is a possibility that I do. After all, you haven't seen the deed to the bridge to know that I don't own it. So your hope is well founded. And, because you did not ask to see my deed, the bridge will be more valuable to you. I only ask that you give me 10% of your increase for the rest of your life. That's a bargain, after all. Even though I am giving you this bridge, and even making it more valuable by not letting you see the deed proving my ownership, I won't ask for more than 10%. Am I not the most benevolent being you've ever met?
Why must people try and compare things of this world with things that are not of this world? If you are grounded in this world then be happy with that. Why is your happiness influenced by my belief? It seems to me that you are in some way trying to justify your own decisions by denying mine. If you wish to be a worldly person then do so. Be the best worldly person on the planet. Embrace your decision and be happy with it. I am happy with my decision. It seems to me that you have a desire to feel that your decision is based on some measure of intelligence. If that is how you feel then pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how smart you are. But to infer that I am stupid and you are smart only exposes your lack of self confidence. If you truly knew that you made the best decision then what I think would not matter. But it does matter to you. One day you may experience true self confidence. But until that day I see that you will try and elevate yourself by lowering others. Your outward shell is strong but your inner man is a punk.
Themis wrote:You are describing blind faith, and I certainly agree that religious faith tends to be very blind, which brings up the issue again how one knows they are getting it right. You have just admitted you don't know. My faith is based on my faith. LOL So you have no foundation at all for your beliefs?
He sees the fruits of his faith in his life. How is that a "blind" faith?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist