The War Chapters in Alma

[_Drifting]

Well, it seems to me there was enough influence of war in the world for it to have influenced a creative writer in the 1820's and 30's.

Stick your head in a hat and give us a good war story. And be sure that there our witnesses. Let us know how you did.

I'm not sure what you post has to do with mine.
Are you suggesting there weren't creative authors around in the early 1800's?

[_DrW]

Except that Joseph pulled the story out of hat. Give it a try and report back to us.

As is often the case, you don't seem to be paying attention. MCB made it pretty clear that there are peer reviewed and published data that indicate the "War Chapters" in Alma were conveniently pre-written for Joseph Smith by one, Solomon Spaulding, who was an accomplished story writer, and a war veteran.

[Guest]

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[_Themis]

Except that Joseph pulled the story out of hat. Give it a try and report back to us.

As is often the case, you don't seem to be paying attention. MCB made it pretty clear that there are peer reviewed and published data that indicate the "War Chapters" in Alma were conveniently pre-written for Joseph Smith by one, Solomon Spaulding, who was an accomplished story writer, and a war veteran.

Whyme still makes a huge amount of assumptions surrounding the creation of the Book of Mormon. We shouldn't forget that a con game or magic show involve a lot of distraction from what is really going on.

[_consiglieri]

What does "plays out well" entail, practically speaking?

The best way I can describe it is the many threads of the story line being interwoven seamlessly (almost!), with details kept in place throughout, such as city names, characters, etc. This is made more difficult by the fact that the war happens on two fronts, with Moroni in charge of the southwest front and Teancum (then Helaman) on the southeast front. (Even the fact that there were two fronts of the war came as a surprise to me back in 1989 the first time I read these chapters through at one sitting.)

For instance, the narrative left off in Alma 55:33-34 picks up seamlessly in Alma 59:5.

One of the Lamanite king's servants in 47:29 appears again at 55:5.

Astonished Lamanites who flee into the wilderness when they see how well prepared the city of Manti is in 58:29 go from the western front to join their comrades at the eastern front where we see them again at Alma 59:6.

Rebellious Nephites who are put in jail to await trial in 51:19 are not forgotten and get their trial in Alma 62:9.

These are a few of the detalis not lost track of in the midst of this winding, complex, but nevertheless complete, narrative.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Well, it seems to me there was enough influence of war in the world for it to have influenced a creative writer in the 1820's and 30's.

The world has never wanted for war.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_MCB]

Vladimir Putin on how to better deal with the civil unrest in his country. How do you think I should approach it?

Tell him that Joseph Smith died because he and his cronies were protecting people like O. P. Rockwell.

No, on second thought, he might take it the wrong way.

[_consiglieri]

Multiple studies identify them as having the strongest Spalding signal of any chapters in the Book of Mormon. And he was a veteran of the Revolution, and suffered financial reverses with the War of 1812. You can see some of the same themes in Oberlin Manuscript Story. War narrative was his strength.

Without making this thread about word studies, I should probably say that I find the Jockers, Criddle, et al, study unpersuasive.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_MCB]

I find the Jockers, Criddle, et al, study unpersuasive.

Of course. You have been taught from your childhood that the Book of Mormon is the foundation of your faith. And you are an exception from the usual LDS, in that you believe that many LDS are heretics (at the least) from the best of that book. For that reason, I count you as my friend.

[_consiglieri]

Please go into the minor problems in the story. In my opinion, the fact that those parts even exist are, in themselves, problems, since they don't fulfill the book's own stated mission of convincing Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ.

1. Alma 53:6 locates the city of Mulek in "the land of Nephi" when it is obviously in "the land of the Nephites" (51:22-27), not the southern "land of Nephi" that was occupied by the Lamanites.

2. Alma 51:25 says Amalickiah would not allow the Lamanites to go against the city of Nephihah, then in the next verse says "he went on, taking possession of many cities" including the "city of Nephihah."

I argue in an upcoming paper with Don Bradley that the city of Nephihah was listed here, though not taken by the Lamanites until several years later (Alma 59:5-12) in order to make the cities taken in 51:26 tally the numerologically potent number of seven.

3. The third problem has to do with Gid taking Lamanite POW's from the front to Zarahemla and on the way meeting Nephite spies who had been sent out to watch the camp of the Lamanites. (57:30) This one is a matter of logistics. The border between the Nephites and Lamanites is described as being a straight line east to west, with the Nephites on the north and the Lamanites on the south.

Zarahemla, the capital city of the Nephites, is north of this border. So how is it that Nephite spies sent out to watch the Lamanite camps along the east/west boundary south of Zarahemla should run into Gid who is taking POW's northeast to Zarahemla? Did the spies get lost or something?


These are the three problems I can locate in the war chapters. As I say, they are all rather small in comparison to the overall consistency and complexity of the narrative, but they should not go unremarked upon.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri