Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Themis]

As I understand the official doctrine, if you don't or can't shake the hand of the supernatural visitor then, chances are, they're not from God.

Which has happened to no one in the history of the human race, yet was included in Mormon doctrinal canon. Of all the pressing questions mankind has, at least this vexing problem has been answered.

Maybe someday in the future, "deceiving angels" will start to visit humans by the thousands and this sage knowledge will come in quite handy?

The teaching was that if the angel has a body it will shake your hand, but if not, it will make no such attempts. Satan is to stupid though, and will always try to shake your hand.

[_SteelHead]

Funny omission, isn't it?

But maybe they exchanged tokens ala the temple ceremony to verify that it was truly Jehovah and Elohim. It was omitted from the narative as it is too sacred. But it is further proof that the temple ceremony was the same in Ny, Kirtland and Nauvou as per the other thread.

[_Racer]

So, if some guy in 2012 chopped off the head of a fellow citizen claiming God told him to do it, we should give him the benefit of the doubt? Who are we to question what God told this guy to do? Since God is above the laws of man we shouldn't judge the murderer too harshly. After all, God put him in a tight spot, but at least he was refined in the refiner's fire and will be a more valiant servant of God at the expense of the victim. We should chalk it up to collateral damage in the Lord's quest to further his cause.

No. We have been given the ability to judge righteously, and a source for knowing truth. We don't just take one's word for it.

Well, to be a believing member of the church we are essentially asked to take Nephi's word on this story. How is that any different than someone in modern times beheading someone and saying the spirit of God moved upon them to do it? If Monson beheaded a drunk guy in SLC and said God told him to do it would you get behind him and tolerate it? If not, why tolerate Nehphi's scenerio? What is the difference? If your answer is "yes", what brought you to that conclusion? The fact that Monson claims to be a prophet, or the warm fuzzy you received that validates him as a prophet, so if he ever did behead someone, there would be a good reason for it?

[_Mooseman]

Well, to be a believing member of the church we are essentially asked to take Nephi's word on this story. How is that any different than someone in modern times beheading someone and saying the spirit of God moved upon them to do it? If Monson beheaded a drunk guy in Salt Lake City and said God told him to do it would you get behind him and tolerate it? If not, why tolerate Nehphi's scenerio? What is the difference? If your answer is "yes", what brought you to that conclusion? The fact that Monson claims to be a prophet, or the warm fuzzy you received that validates him as a prophet, so if he ever did behead someone, there would be a good reason for it?

The mantel or righteousness has for a first layer the love of God. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart might mind and strength. That is the entire cloak with just a thin lining of love thy neighbor as thyself.

You damn atheists ONLY consider the value of the thin layer of brotherly love. Brother's don't want you to kill brothers. Bad, bad bad.

The reality of the Nephi killing Laban scenario is that God commanded
1. Get the brass plates. A. To teach the children of Lehi. B. To preserve them for all future time as the looting of Jerusalem was at hand and these fine brass plates will be destroyed by Babylon.....
C. God is very serious about the commandment to get those plates out of Jerusalem.

The love of God above all else sanctifies whatever you must do.
Carp all you want whining about how unrighteous it is and how evil of God to kill anyone. Shut up and take your medicine. Either stand up to the first commandment and bring the love of God to the fray or lose all credibility in the argument.

Notice you you left God out of your story IF Monson were to kill anyone and just happen to say that God told him to do it. You left Monson hanging without justification. There was no equal scenario where it mattered to God. If it did matter as much to God today that anyone be killed for his purposes then so be it. Atheist think they Trump all God stuff with denial. BS. If you want to live without God stop confronting Him.

You say, well if God wanted Laban dead why did he not do it himself. Spare Nephi from being a murderer in the slander of his enemies. Well, let's think about it a second. Laman and Lemuel are going to eventually kill the children of Nephi. Nephi is a saint of the Most High God. He is not likely to want to battle his brothers. Nephi is forced to lose his loathsomeness of killing. A wise and purposeful reason to put Nephi in a corner to man up and do it in obedience to the Lord. God is all about thinking ahead.

You remove God and everything logical and ethical is in your sand box.
Stay away from religion or face no logic, ethics, or reason, as the love of God rules supreme in all and all.

[_Sethbag]

It does make it difficult, just as it is difficult if not impossible to know your body is not creating the experience. It's a major issue I find many don't want to think about. You would think if one has the truth as important to them they would want to think about it just a little.

Oh, I've thought about it. However, if I can't be sure of such experiences, and all that entailed regarding those events, then I can't be sure about anything. I might as well just lie in a ditch, and wait for whatever's going to actually happen, happen.

Or climb out of the ditch and go make something happen.

[_Sethbag]

The love of God above all else sanctifies whatever you must do.
Carp all you want whining about how unrighteous it is and how evil of God to kill anyone. Shut up and take your medicine. Either stand up to the first commandment and bring the love of God to the fray or lose all credibility in the argument.

Holy crap, dude. Remind me never to run into you in a dark alley. Who knows, you might think God wants you to strike down this apostate, and apparently you're the kind who would "bring the love of God to the fray" and do it!

You are one crazy, sick son of a bitch Mooseman.

[_Sethbag]

I recall arguments on MAD back in the day because someone, I think it was Tal Bachman, had brought up the idea that some Mormons believed so strongly that if they were told by their leaders to strap on a bomb and go kill someone, they would do it. The mopologists were horribly offended by this idea, and railed on the apostates for making that claim.

Well, here's exhibit damned A my friends: Mooseman. The man who is willing to bring his love of God to the fray and do whatever he has to, to including killing someone if they get in the way of executing God's will.

[_Mooseman]

Well, here's exhibit f*****g A my friends: Mooseman. The man who is willing to bring his love of God to the fray and do whatever he has to, to including killing someone if they get in the way of executing God's will.

You would not kill someone for God obviously. You have no love for him.
Would you kill someone for your wife, child, brother? If needful? hmm?

This is why the haters of God
have no say in religious discussions. They can only poison the well.

The first commandment is not subject to the laws and civility of men. If is does not rise above all it has no virtue. You cannot compare a genuine love of God that sacrifices all for that love enduring to the end with some crazed sociopath. Get real. But then you are God dumb. So I have to suffer your pathetic lack.

[_Sethbag]

<------- God dumb. Guilty as charged.

[_Cicero]

I recall arguments on MAD back in the day because someone, I think it was Tal Bachman, had brought up the idea that some Mormons believed so strongly that if they were told by their leaders to strap on a bomb and go kill someone, they would do it. The mopologists were horribly offended by this idea, and railed on the apostates for making that claim.

Well, here's exhibit f*****g A my friends: Mooseman. The man who is willing to bring his love of God to the fray and do whatever he has to, to including killing someone if they get in the way of executing God's will.

I certainly could have been Exhibit B on the day I completed my two months in the MTC. I can pretty much guarantee that I would have done almost anything the prophet commanded me to do that day.