Was Abinadi's Death Necessary?

[_Racer]

Abinadi was commanded by God to preach repentence to the evil King Noah. Noah has none of it and wants to arrest Abinadi, but the gaurds cannot touch him because the power of God's force field prevents them from laying a hand on him. After his message is finished the power of God wears off, whereby the guards can now imprison him and he is quickly sentenced to death.

Abinadi is burned at the stake and God doesn't do a dang thing to help him out. How come God didn't pull a "Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego" on Abinadi? These 3 also pissed off a king with their preaching. However, God caused them to not be damaged or consumed by the fire they were cast in. Why couldn't he do this to Abinadi? Imagine the wicked priests and king Noah heaping more wood and fire onto Abinadi and he is completely unphased and unkillable. Now that sends a message - and it seemed to work in the Old Testament and spared the lives of God's faithful servants.

Let's flash forward to Samuel the Lamanite. This guy is commanded to do the same thing as Abinadi (go amongst the people and call them to repentence even though they hate him). Samuel gets on top of the wall, starts preaching, and the wicked army starts loosing hundreds of arrows and stones at him. Luckily for Samuel, God's force field protects him and he walks away unscathed.

Why did Abinadi have to die? Both the Old Testament and Book of Mormon have shown that God can protect his prophets with some kind of force field. Why is God so selective with his force field powers?

[_SteelHead]

Abinadi was retarded. Sneaks back into the city in disguise. Stands up and starts preaching and the first thing out of his mouth:

I Adinadi....

All he had to do was not use his own name. So no, not necessary.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Why did Abinadi have to die?
...

He had to die in order to make an effective play upon the sympathy and empathy of the Book of Mormon reader.

There has been a long history of this type of pious literature. The RCC Church has shelves of accounts telling of the agony of their early saints. The Protestants had their "Foxe's Book of Martyrs" (still a big production in Joe Smith's day), and there were contemporary reports of Puritans trying to kill off the Quakers in New England nearly as late as 1830.

Along with soliciting sympathy, the Book of Mormon account plays upon the potential convert's feelings of pathos, to the point that "priestcraft" (King Noah) becomes 100% negative and Abinadi becomes 100% divine -- sealing his testimony and predictive prophecy with his own life.

What is troubling, is that readers/hearers back in 1830 were taken in by this sort of semi-literate manipulation. I can just picture Lyman Wight or Edward Partridge saying: "Damn those wicked Gentile priests! Where do I get baptized into Joe Smith's new religion? Sign me up, brothers!!"

I shake my head in utter amazement... and disgust.

UD

[_RayAgostini]

Why did Abinadi have to die? Both the Old Testament and Book of Mormon have shown that God can protect his prophets with some kind of force field. Why is God so selective with his force field powers?

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess.2)

7 Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth us our weakness that we may know that it is by his grace, and his great condescensions unto the children of men, that we have power to do these things.
8 Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. (Jacob 4)

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!
16 Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish.
17 But behold, if the inhabitants of the earth shall repent of their wickedness and abominations they shall not be destroyed, saith the Lord of Hosts.
18 But behold, that great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof.
19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish;
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good. (2 Ne.28)

Why God allows one to die, and another to live, is certainly a "mystery" in our eyes, and it takes faith to believe that behind these mysteries lies a greater purpose, known to God. But MOCKERY will always be the order of the day among the unbelievers, and it's also the "order of the day" on this vile board. You can repent and choose to leave it, or at the very least not assent to the spiritual blindness that prevails here, but better still - denounce it. The choice is yours. You can begin a renewal and spiritual growth, and let the Light shine through, or be enveloped by the darkness within, until you know nothing of "the mysteries of God", and even eventually mock that which is sacred.

I've posted this before. Joan of Arc said that her greatest fear, her worst nightmare - was dying by fire. Although she temporarily recanted because of that fear, she later rescinded, perhaps realising that standing up to her convictions would require the Ultimate Sacrifice, from which even God did not spare her.

Joan of Arc - Recanting and burning scene.

Mock on, as is the custom here.

[Guest]

Ray, why are you so testy? I don't think I was mocking so much as I was posing a question. Besides I don't owe the Book of Mormon anymore reverence than I do the Koran, Dianetics, or any other man made "prophetic" writing.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Why God allows one to die, and another to live, is certainly a "mystery" in our eyes
...

We all die, sooner or later.

While a matter of days or years may seem important to
some of us, caught up in the situation of daily life, there is
really very little difference between somebody dying today
or next year, or next decade --- It's all about the same.

Perhaps the more interesting question would be: "How might a
situation have been different, if death were somehow delayed?"

Suppose Abinadi escaped King Noah's perverted justice and
lived on for another ten or twenty years. What then?

Or, suppose that Jesus or Joseph Smith had been spared for
another decade or two. To what purpose?

I don't think there is much "mystery" involved. Given the events
of those various accounts, leading up to the demise, there
would have been no obvious use in any of the subjects living.

UD

[_RayAgostini]

I don't think there is much "mystery" involved. Given the events
of those various accounts, leading up to the demise, there
would have been no obvious use in any of the subjects living.

UD

He had to die in order to make an effective play upon the sympathy and empathy of the Book of Mormon reader.

Does that answer the question of why other Book of Mormon prophets didn't have to die? Why God is "selective"?

Keep up your work, Dale. Maybe one day, finally, you'll let go of your Book of Mormon production conspiracy theories and face the truth as recorded by the primary witnesses. I wish you well in your eternal wild goose chase.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Does that answer the question
...

Here's a little thought puzzle for you to try out, one day
when you have nothing better to do.

Suppose you wake up tomorrow and discover that the story of
Abinadi is missing from your Book of Mormon. Not only that, but
you can find no reference to the character anywhere.

You mention the missing account to your Bishop, SP, and even
to a learned Institute teacher. They all tell you that you must
be imagining things -- that there is no such Nephite story.

At your wits end, you redraw the famous Arnold Freiburg picture,
post it to the web, and try doing a Google Image+similar search.
There are no matching results -- no mention of the prophet.

You finally conclude that you must indeed have imagined him.
The story of Alma the elder reads perfectly fine in the Nephite
record -- he escapes King Noah, establishes the Nephite church
and eventually passes on his great faith to his son, Alma.

Consider all of that.

Were it to happen, the way I've described, what would be lost?

What plain and precious part of the fulness of the gospel would
thus be obliterated? What essential part of the plan of salvation
and of gospel doctrine would be lacking?

Face it -- that prophet is perfectly dispensable. We do not need
him for anything. We can even do without Freiburg's illustration.

Nothing important lost....

UD

[_RayAgostini]

Here's a little thought puzzle for you to try out, one day
when you have nothing better to do.

Suppose you wake up tomorrow and discover that the story of
Abinadi is missing from your Book of Mormon. Not only that, but
you can find no reference to the character anywhere.

You mention the missing account to your Bishop, SP, and even
to a learned Institute teacher. They all tell you that you must
be imagining things -- that there is no such Nephite story.

At your wits end, you redraw the famous Arnold Freiburg picture,
post it to the web, and try doing a Google Image+similar search.
There are no matching results -- no mention of the prophet.

You finally conclude that you must indeed have imagined him.
The story of Alma the elder reads perfectly fine in the Nephite
record -- he escapes King Noah, establishes the Nephite church
and eventually passes on his great faith to his son, Alma.

Consider all of that.

Were it to happen, the way I've described, what would be lost?

What plain and precious part of the fulness of the gospel would
thus be obliterated? What essential part of the plan of salvation
and of gospel doctrine would be lacking?

Face it -- that prophet is perfectly dispensable. We do not need
him for anything. We can even do without Freiburg's illustration.

Nothing important lost....

UD

Have you ever had any discussions with Royal Skousen?

[_Uncle Dale]

Have you ever had any discussions with Royal Skousen?

Nope. But I've read Wes Andrews and Clyde Dalton's
"The Black Hammer," and have stayed the night at a
Holiday Inn Express.

That's enough glory for one lifetime, I presume.

UD