Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Gordon]

Precisely . . . his response to me was to cite John 14:26, which I like many of you cited pretty much every day as a missionary. It says that the Holy Ghost can teach us "all things." It sure would be nice if the Holy Ghost would teach everybody the same thing, but for some strange reason most people tend to stick with the religion they were raised in.

The HG does teach the same truth. The problem, is that you have people falsely claiming something from the HG which isn't, and people, like yourself, getting confused by it (or using it as a reason to reject anything from the HG completely).

Do you honestly believe that every Tom, Dick, and Harry who claim revelation from G-d are telling the truth? They all got some sort of 'revelation' (which could be the real thing, a hallucination, or whatever)? That there's no way (and absolutely NO precedence) they could be just BSing everyone? I'm sure your answer is no...in fact, you probably think none of them actually received revelation from the Lord. However, I believe some can, and do. Each individual can know for sure, and for themselves, whether this is true. I can't tell you...neither can Nephi, Joseph Smith, or the Lafferty's.

[_Gordon]

This is easy enough. Any personal manifestation of the hg that agrees with Gordon's take on Mormonism is the true hg. All others are fakes and impostors.



Duh.

Ya got me...that's what I've been claiming all along. Glad you could see through my rhetoric...

Now that you have accepted that, I command you to go rub jelly on your tummy! The hg and all.

[_Gordon]

That doesn't really say anything about the experience, and to be clear, I am not saying the experience didn't happen, but talking about how you get and know your interpretation of it is accurate. I noticed krose has brought it up as well.

This is my position: Not everyone claiming revelation from G-d are telling the truth (I would say most aren't), or actually had one. If they are lying, there are numerous reasons for that. If they genuinely believe they did, but didn't (such as your hallucination), I believe you would be able to judge the legitimacy of that claim based upon the actions regarding it (if you don't rely on the HG).

As for me having the experience, and knowing whether it's real or not, I honestly believe I could tell the difference, but that's me. Sure, I could imagine something happened, which most likely didn't (which has happened to me), but the witnesses I have received are undeniable. You seem to suggest that nothing is absolute/certain, regarding such matters, but I disagree.

[_Gordon]

Well, to be a believing member of the church we are essentially asked to take Nephi's word on this story. How is that any different than someone in modern times beheading someone and saying the spirit of God moved upon them to do it? If Monson beheaded a drunk guy in SLC and said God told him to do it would you get behind him and tolerate it? If not, why tolerate Nehphi's scenerio? What is the difference? If your answer is "yes", what brought you to that conclusion? The fact that Monson claims to be a prophet, or the warm fuzzy you received that validates him as a prophet, so if he ever did behead someone, there would be a good reason for it?

We aren't asked to just take him by his word. A witness from the HG is way more than a 'warm fuzzy', it's a confirmation...you know it.

Monson could behead someone, and just because he is the prophet doesn't automatically make it right...he could have gone completely rogue, and simply decided on a killing spree. The good thing, though, is that the Lord has given us a way to know whether such actions are of Him or not...we don't just have to take everybody else's word for it.

[_Gordon]

Or climb out of the ditch and go make something happen.

Well, according to Themis, how would I know that what I 'made happen' was actually happening?

The ditch part was a bit facetious, because I would much rather lie in a soft, warm bed. Then, I could wait comfortably...perhaps a phone will come flying through the window, and it will be Morpheus offering me some red pill. I'll take it, and then I can find my way to the source, where I can berate him for causing so much confusion regarding revelation. He'll start rambling about some "systemic anomaly", and I'll nod my head like I know what hell he's talking about...but then, I could just be dreaming...

[_PrickKicker]

Moroni 10:4
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

If you ask and get a good feeling, then its NOT true.

If you have no feeling at all after reading how a man is left alone wandering, whilst his entire race has been eliminated.
then you have no human emotion and you need to get your self checked by a shrink for being a psychopath.
but it is no different to crying at a TV drama, played by actors.

This is nothing to do with the Holy Ghost! it is pure human emotion, it is a biological / chemical response of sympathy!

Books were the TV of yester-year, you can make animals talk and invent anything from the imagination, part human part God beings like Hercules and Jesus!
wake up from your delusion people.

Recognize the truth using your head not your heart.

[_Gordon]

Moroni 10:4
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

If you ask and get a good feeling, then its NOT true.

You do understand syntax, do you not?

The Book of Mormon isn't asking readers to pray to see if it's false...perhaps you should ask an english teacher to explain it to you.

If you have no feeling at all after reading how a man is left alone wandering, whilst his entire race has been eliminated.
then you have no human emotion and you need to get your self checked by a shrink for being a psychopath.
but it is no different to crying at a TV drama, played by actors.

This is nothing to do with the Holy Ghost! it is pure human emotion, it is a biological / chemical response of sympathy!

Books were the TV of yester-year, you can make animals talk and invent anything from the imagination, part human part God beings like Hercules and Jesus!
wake up from your delusion people.

Recognize the truth using your head not your heart.

For you to assert that I'm completely unable to discern the distinction between a witness, versus the feeling I get at a tearjerker or when seeing an olympic athlete crying at the Star-Spangled Banner, is just asinine.

[_Drifting]

For you to assert that I'm completely unable to discern the distinction between a witness, versus the feeling I get at a tearjerker or when seeing an olympic athlete crying at the Star-Spangled Banner, is just asinine.

Can you articulate the specific differences in what you feel that separate the two experiences?

[_Gordon]

Can you articulate the specific differences in what you feel that separate the two experiences?

I can try.

When I get misty-eyed at a tearjerker, I think the feeling is something we all have felt. It makes me sad, or my heart skips a beat, and sometimes it's difficult to breath. When I hear the anthem being played, and watch a gold medal winning athlete on the podium, the back of my neck gets prickly, and I get all misty-eyed. However, when I have gotten a witness (usually without even asking for it, and at unexpected times), it consumes my whole body...a burning within, which I have never felt at any of the incidents mentioned. Some my claim this to be a hallucination, or a trick of the mind, but I have experienced those as well, and they are different (usually when fear is a factor, and the related emotions/feelings).

[_just me]

Can you articulate the specific differences in what you feel that separate the two experiences?

I can try.

When I get misty-eyed at a tearjerker, I think the feeling is something we all have felt. It makes me sad, or my heart skips a beat, and sometimes it's difficult to breath. When I hear the anthem being played, and watch a gold medal winning athlete on the podium, the back of my neck gets prickly, and I get all misty-eyed. However, when I have gotten a witness (usually without even asking for it, and at unexpected times), it consumes my whole body...a burning within, which I have never felt at any of the incidents mentioned. Some my claim this to be a hallucination, or a trick of the mind, but I have experienced those as well, and they are different (usually when fear is a factor, and the related emotions/feelings).

Do you mean that your whole body feels hot inside? Is that what you describe as "consumes my whole body...a burning within?"