Evangelical's Struggle to Address Premarital Sex & Abortion

[_just me]

"You will recall Alma’s teaching his son Corianton that unchastity is the most serious offense there is in the sight of God, except for murder or denying the Holy Ghost. (See Alma 39:5.) President Clark, in a conference address in October 1938, said: 'Chastity is fundamental to our life and to our civilization. If the race becomes unchaste, it will perish. Immorality has been basic to the destruction of mighty nations of the past; it will bring to dust the mighty nations of the present. You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this.' Now, my dear friends, we know there is nothing new in what we have said. These things are time-tested; they are true. To this we testify."
-LDS First Presidency Message "We Believe in Being Chaste," Ensign, Sept. 1981, 3

"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (all editions), page 124.

President David O. McKay is quoted in Kimball's book as follows:
" . . . Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin . . . do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation."

Heber J. Grant is also quoted in Kimball's book:
"...There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world."

Later in the same book, President Kimball again addresses the matter of Chastity with the elsewhere mentioned paragraph:

"Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given OR TAKEN OR STOLEN it can NEVER BE REGAINED. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. IF SHE HAS NOT COOPERATED and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a MORE FAVORABLE position. There is no condemnation where there is NO Voluntary participation. It is BETTER TO DIE in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."

[_ludwigm]

four quotes using bold text and large font

I hope You have written it adagio, with pause between syllables, so [personal attack deleted]...

[_just me]

four quotes using bold text and large font

I hope You have written it adagio, with pause between syllables, so even gdemetz can read it...

[_gdemetz]

Maybe I am wasting my time here.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whosoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:25-26 (see also Mark 8:35-36 and Luke 17{33)

Can you guys just try briefly to picture things from an eternal perspective and ponder the meaning of Christ's words here?! There is life beyond "the pine box"!

[_Cylon]

Maybe I am wasting my time here.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whosoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:25-26 (see also Mark 8:35-36 and Luke 17{33)

Can you guys just try briefly to picture things from an eternal perspective and ponder the meaning of Christ's words here?! There is life beyond "the pine box"!

Aaaaand, no response to the requested quotes, just an attempted derail.

We understand there's life beyond "the pine box," gdemetz, it's your church leaders who don't seem to.

And I'm curious why getting an answer to your request for quotes would lead you to conclude you're wasting your time here.

[_Drifting]

Maybe I am wasting my time here.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whosoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:25-26 (see also Mark 8:35-36 and Luke 17{33)

Can you guys just try briefly to picture things from an eternal perspective and ponder the meaning of Christ's words here?! There is life beyond "the pine box"!

Well, you cannot say those are Christs words.
You can say those are the words that the authors of Mark and Luke attribute to Christ even though they weren't there themselves at the time Christ supposedly said them.

[_just me]

Maybe I am wasting my time here.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whosoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:25-26 (see also Mark 8:35-36 and Luke 17{33)

Can you guys just try briefly to picture things from an eternal perspective and ponder the meaning of Christ's words here?! There is life beyond "the pine box"!

Are you suggesting that it actually IS better to die than be raped or have sex outside of legal marriage?

[_gdemetz]

So, Drifting, you are stating that perhaps Christ was misquoted by all three authors, not likely! Also, Someone else here seems to imply that our church leaders don't believe in life after death, and then they wonder why I feel I am wasting my time here?!? Just Me, I am saying that it is better to die righteous than to keep living in sin and then later die in your sins. I believe that this is what Christ meant. However, being raped, the victim is without sin. It is the rapist who is committing the terrible sin.

[Guest]

So, Drifting, you are stating that perhaps Christ was misquoted by all three authors, not likely! Also, Someone else here seems to imply that our church leaders don't believe in life after death, and then they wonder why I feel I am wasting my time here?!? Just Me, I am saying that it is better to die righteous than to keep living in sin and then later die in your sins. I believe that this is what Christ meant. However, being raped, the victim is without sin. It is the rapist who is committing the terrible sin.

No. I'm stating Christ wasn't quoted by any of them because *and this is the important bit* they weren't there! All three are at least second hand accounts (if not third or fourth) and two of them used the account in Mark as their source material. The three were not independent of each other.

In terms of your second point.
You believe that only Christ was perfect, right?
Which means that every other person, no matter how hard they try, will ultimately die in sin. That's why the Atonement was necessary. If one could achieve death without being in sin then Christs mission was pointless.

[_gdemetz]

Drifting, I assume that you have references that none of the three witnessed His statement? Christ died without sin, so what is your point exactly?