Dallin Oaks talks about Joanna Brooks at Arizona Stake Conf?

[_Joe Geisner]

I have only one persons report on this event. I have done a google search seeing if I can verify from any other source and so far nothing comes up.

I am hoping some one recorded Oaks talk or at least took really good notes.

What I have heard is that Dallin Oaks in an Arizona Stake Conference (this last weekend?) supposedly spoke about Joanna Brooks interview in the NBC Rock Center piece and then continued with an "attack on feminism." One of the points raised sounds very Oakish. He supposedly said that the Church is equal in providing opportunity but does not provide "equality."

If this is true, then I really hope someone recorded or took really good notes of his address. This needs exposure.

[_just me]

*grabs popcorn*

This sounds very interesting!

[_Cicero]

That definitely sounds like him. One of his common themes is that God values unity rather than diversity.

[Guest]

Here is how one person reported it:

Elder Oaks called out Joanna Brooks last week in Arizona at a stake conference. He spoke about the recent NBC Rock Center Piece on the Mormon Church. He specifically referenced the segment where Joanna Brooks spoke about her concern for the position fo women in the church. He devoted the rest of his talk to attacking feminism. The crux of his argument was that the Church is set up to provide equality of opportunity, NOT equality. He then said that Satan's plan called for equality.

And here is how someone who allegedly attended reported it:

. . . a FMH community member attended the conference. Here's what she said on FMH about Oaks remarks (several posts, kinda long, I seperated post with ***):

***
He speaks off the cuff at stake conferences. His remarks were first in regards to being poor (spoke quite extensively about his childhood), second in regards to those who are single (and spoke quite a lot about his new wife Kristen who I understand was single until sometime in her 50s) and third spoke about, well to some extent Joanna's segment on Rock Center.

Let me preface what he said by saying he is fantastically eloquent. And he also speaks in such a way as to be very persuasive and you can tell that this is a man who spends a great deal of time contemplating the deeper aspects of the gospel. And he is also obviously very educated and well read - both scripturally and otherwise.

He mentioned the tv program and mentioned that many of us may have seen it and that he wanted to direct his remarks towards some of us who may relate with one of the women on the program who is an active Latter-Day Saint, but who expressed that she is a feminist and that she does not think there will be equality in the church unless the women are ordained to the priesthood (I understand that is not really what Joanna said...but it is what he thinks Joanna said). He prefaced his next statements by saying "I say this not to demean those who question this doctrine. Some feminists, though not all, believe this idea and my remarks are an attempt to answer their questions". He then further spent a bit of divergence talking about how the lord can not always answer all the questions we have. He stated that he has many questions and that he does not always have the answer directly from the Lord when he would like. That there are many occasions he has had to put something on the shelf and take it down on occasion and ask again. Some of those questions are eventually answered. And some remain on the shelf. Most people in the gospel probably have this experience. And it's important to remember that things are answered in the Lord's time and not necessarily our own. He then said that equality in the church is not the same as equality outside of it. That he believes in the equality of equal pay for equal work. But that inside the church the system of the Lord is a little different. We are all equal in our ability to be saved. We are eternally equal. But the methods of distribution within the church - with men receiving the priesthood and administering - and the women performing a different function are not the same way that we might think of equality outside of the church. He then used a scripture in D&C And go ye aout from among the wicked. Save yourselves. Be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord. Even so. Amen.

He then said that though we may not understand why, the lord gives us two vessels. The vessels of the priesthood are the holy sacrament, which is watched over and administered by the men and the vessels of the body which brings souls into the world are within the bodies of the women. These two things are equal. They perform different functions. There may be questions about this. Not all women bear children. Some things may have to lie on a shelf. But this is the revealed division within the Lords kingdom.

I did not get the feeling that his remarks in regards to Joanna were negative. Rather they seemed more in the vein of worry over the fact that this problem does exist and that there are women in the church who struggle with it.

***another post she continued***

My personal take on this is - I enjoyed his talk in may respects. I do not think they have any other answer to give on this subject, besides this. In some ways I really wish they would just say "we don't know" and leave it at that. Or a simple "we pray about this is and this all that has currently been revealed". I don't personally struggle with this issue, but I know many women do struggle with it. I don't think a continuation of this idea of mother=priesthood is super helpful. Though I do understand that idea appeals to a lot of people.

**additional post***

He did mention that equality was satan's plan, but not in the same way it's being characterized in that comment. So I would not say that is a totally correct way to view his comment. I think we need to also be careful to remember this is him speaking completely off the cuff. It's not censored, and he made that clear too.

***
I really was worried after that meeting that things could be mischaracterized in a number of directions. I didn't want Oaks to be misinterpreted, which I felt could easily happen. I also felt Joanna was unfairly being singled out because their take on the comment on the program was a little different than what she actually said.

***

He ran out of time, I kind of wish that could have gone a little longer because I kept wondering if maybe he would address that aspect of it more directly. For instance, his second wife has never had children. I am *guessing* that he might make an argument for an eternal sort of motherhood or something. But he never really had time to finish his thought. He ended at exactly the meeting closing time while he was practically mid-sentence. He had to make a plane to Hawaii to speak there that evening.

I pulled both these quotes from a Mormon-oriented Facebook community.

[_Drifting]

Here is how one person reported it:

Elder Oaks called out Joanna Brooks last week in Arizona at a stake conference. He spoke about the recent NBC Rock Center Piece on the Mormon Church. He specifically referenced the segment where Joanna Brooks spoke about her concern for the position fo women in the church. He devoted the rest of his talk to attacking feminism. The crux of his argument was that the Church is set up to provide equality of opportunity, NOT equality. He then said that Satan's plan called for equality.

Hmmm...I wonder if anyone asked him how opportunities within the Church for child bearing, home making women are equal to the opportunities for the Priesthood holding, Leadership office holding, presiding, sacrament passing, child and sick blessing men folk...

[_Fence Sitter]

"Equality is Satan's plan".

Well that explains why the Blacks were denied the priesthood.

[_just me]

Put it on the shelf.

[_Drifting]

Many consider the provisions of the common law produced by Coke as a foundation for several provisions in the U.S. Constitution, which celebrates its 225th anniversary this year and is viewed by Latter-day Saints as both inspired and necessary to the Restoration. Five elements of the Constitution have been identified as being particularly inspired:

1. Separation of powers into three independent branches of government.
2. The Bill of Rights’ guarantee of freedom of speech, press, and religion.
3. Equality of all men and women before the law.
4. The federal system, with a division of powers between the nation as a whole and the states.
5. The principle of popular sovereignty—the people are the source of government.4
These five basic fundamentals have been a great blessing and were necessary to the Restoration of the gospel. We share with many others a love and appreciation for the Constitution and a concern about efforts to diminish the Bill of Rights’ guarantee of freedom of religion.

Elder Quentin Cook Ensign Sept 2012

[_Fence Sitter]

"Equality of Opportunity" = 15 seats in the front of the bus and 15 seats in the back.

[_bcspace]

and then continued with an "attack on feminism."

Third wave and higher feminism is a great evil on society so I hope he did.