An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

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_Joe Geisner
_Emeritus
Posts: 396
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An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Joe Geisner »

“Unfortunately some choose to dwell on half-truths or inaccurate information regarding the church, its history, or its leaders, which often results in a crisis of faith and testimony.”

As with the author of this open letter, I was quite disturbed by the Area Presidency's sentence I quote above. This same charge has been leveled at Church members in Nauvoo who either said publicly or wrote in the Nauvoo Expositor that Smith was practicing polygamy. It is a charge leveled at Egyptologist when Franklin Spalding published his tract on the Book of Abraham in 1917. It has been leveled at my friends Mike Quinn, Will Bagley and David Bigler at MHA, FARMS publications and apologists on the Internet.

The leaders seem to not get that the half truths and inaccurate information is their problem. It is their lies and distortions that have created the problem, not the messenger with the accurate information.

http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2012 ... ris-ralph/

I particularly liked Christopher Ralph, the letter writer's response:

Is it not sadly ironic therefore that your letter advises local leaders that “some choose to dwell on half-truths or inaccurate information regarding the church, its history, or its leaders”? That statement is undoubtedly true, but the accusing finger is readily shown by numerous examples, such as the one already mentioned, to be pointing in quite the wrong direction. Nor is it enough to assert, as you have, that the church does not hide historical facts, when it may so easily be demonstrated that it has done so in the past, and continues to do so even today. To make such a claim is just adding a further layer of untruth to that which already exists, and will not accomplish any honourable purpose. How is this practice worthy of God’s servants?
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Defenders of the Church frequently point out that it is not their responsibility to present negative information about the Church. What else is that other than an admission that they are presenting "half-truths"?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
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Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

What choice do they have? They either acknowledge the problems, which are clearly not "half-truths or inaccurate information," or they continue with the policy best outlined by Frank Morgan: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Image
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Equality
_Emeritus
Posts: 3362
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:44 pm

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Equality »

Bob Loblaw wrote:What choice do they have? They either acknowledge the problems, which are clearly not "half-truths or inaccurate information," or they continue with the policy best outlined by Frank Morgan: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Image


WIZARD
I never asked for this
Or planned it in advance
I was merely blown here
By the winds of chance
I never saw myself
As a Solomon or Socrates
I knew who I was:
One of your dime a dozen
Mediocrities

Then suddenly I'm here
Respected - worshipped, even
Just because the folks in Oz
Needed someone to believe in
Does it surprise you
I got hooked, and all too soon?
What can I say?
I got carried away
And not just by balloon:

Wonderful
They called me "Wonderful"
So I said "Wonderful" - if you insist
I will be "Wonderful"
And they said "Wonderful"
Believe me, it's hard to resist
'Cause it feels wonderful
They think I'm wonderful
Hey, look who's wonderful -
This corn-fed hick
Who said: "It might be keen
To build a town of green
And a wonderful road of yellow brick!"

(spoken) See - I never had a family of my own. So, I
guess I just - wanted to give the citizens of Oz everything.

ELPHABA(spoken) So you lied to them.

WIZARD
(spoken) Elphaba, where I'm from, we believe all sorts of
things that aren't true. We call it - "history."

(sung) A man's called a traitor - or liberator
A rich man's a thief - or philanthropist
Is one a crusader - or ruthless invader?
It's all in which label
Is able to persist
There are precious few at ease
With moral ambiguities
So we act as though they don't exist

They call me "Wonderful"
So I am wonderful
In fact - it's so much who I am
It's part of my name
And with my help, you can be the same
At long, long last receive your due
Long overdue
Elphaba - The most celebrated
Are the rehabilitated
There'll be such a - whoop-de-doo
A celebration throughout Oz
That's all to do - with you

Wonderful
They'll call you wonderful:

ELPHABA
It does sound wonderful:

WIZARD
Trust me - it's fun

BOTH
When you are wonderful
It would be wonderful?
Wonderful, wonderful

WIZARD
One! Two! And:
(they dance)
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
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Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _sock puppet »

Joe Geisner wrote:“Unfortunately some choose to dwell on half-truths or inaccurate information regarding the church, its history, or its leaders, which often results in a crisis of faith and testimony.”

I readily admit that I'd be impressed if Mormonism were half true. But it is obviously not.

Crisis of 'faith and testimony'? Yea, non-fact-based hopes are in crisis because of half-truths. Imagine the annihilation of faith and testimony of those dwelling on such information would suffer if the historical record included video footage of JSJr's shenanigans?
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

sock puppet wrote:I readily admit that I'd be impressed if Mormonism were half true. But it is obviously not.


No kidding. The problem with Mormonism is that every single one of its truth claims is obviously false.

Crisis of 'faith and testimony'? Yea, non-fact-based hopes are in crisis because of half-truths. Imagine the annihilation of faith and testimony of those dwelling on such information would suffer if the historical record included video footage of JSJr's shenanigans?


Right now the people who are leaving are those who were interested enough in the church's history and claims to read up on them. It's the lazy and intransigent who don't care who are staying in the church along with the angry apologists and neo-Bircher fanatics. Imagine what will happen when the lazy folks stumble across the truth.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Tobin »

I think you'll find both sides dwell in "half-truths" and other misinformation. The Brethren should prayfully and carefully re-assess thier positions as should the disaffected. Most of those that are having trouble have not seen and spoken with the Lord and truly sought him as they should have. Now the storms are upon them, they find their foundations built on sand and they are washed away with the flood.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Tobin wrote:I think you'll find both sides dwell in "half-truths" and other misinformation. The Brethren should prayfully and carefully re-assess thier positions as should the disaffected. Most of those that are having trouble have not seen and spoken with the Lord and truly sought him as they should have. Now the storms are upon them, they find their foundations built on sand and they are washed away with the flood.


Truth matters to me. I would have to be crazy to put myself and my family through what I have because of half-truths and misinformation. If there were truth in Mormonism I'd still be a Mormon.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_just me
_Emeritus
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Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _just me »

Most of those that are having trouble have not seen and spoken with the Lord and truly sought him as they should have.


You have NO idea if that is true or not.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: An Open Letter to Europe Area Presidency

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

just me wrote:You have NO idea if that is true or not.


But he's right. Everyone else is wrong, so obviously they haven't talked to God about it.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
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