Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Gordon]

How do you know you're not simply biologically wired in a particular way that makes you more sensitive to these types of sensations, while others are not? (Key word: "know")

I guess we can test the DNA of everyone with these experiences, to see if there is a gene. We already know there is a 'god gene', so maybe there's HG gene.

The feelings you get, no matter how powerful or serene, do not unambiguously state some proposition; you are left to attach some significance to them. This reflective and interpretive process is what undercuts your claims to knowledge. The best you can claim is faith/belief, not knowledge.

I can claim knowledge for myself...I know lot's of things about myself that I can't prove to you. You just don't agree with that. I could have a personal visitation, but I can't prove that to you, either.

Again, is there any way for you to know (or show) that these experiences are all coming from God, rather than from a similar/shared biological disposition?

Faith is a big part of it, but it's not my job to prove it to you.

Please share with us the experience you've had that allowed you to statistically evaluate the claims of a majority of other religious adherents. Also, please define "religious adherents" so that we can agree on an apples-to-apples comparison.

I couldn't give you statistics on the matter any more than you could to me regarding how many people you have met who have a bad temper.

As for a religious adherent, I suppose you could use a dictionary for that.

[_Gordon]

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you asserting that a small number of people having similar intense feelings associated with a particular aspect of life makes it more believable that they experienced something supernatural? Am I misunderstanding you?

You're misunderstanding me.

I'm not stating that the small number of people having these same experiences proves anything. Themis suggested that these experiences could just be internal feelings. I merely think it odd that a feeling, which any human can have, is only being had by a very small minority, and it seems to be happening in regards to only one aspect in life.

[_Gordon]

I like how you are closing that loop around his neck.

Lol. Yeah...and the Easter Bunny is under your bed eating all your twinkies.

[_Gordon]

How do you tell the difference?

Really? How do you tell the difference between hot and cold?

[_Chap]

... I merely think it odd that a feeling, which any human can have, is only being had by a very small minority, and it seems to be happening in regards to only one aspect in life.

If only a small minority of people have the appropriate cultural expectations and strong personal commitments in regard to the relevant aspect of life, why would one be surprised?

And of course we are back with the old problem of how we can tell that a given number of people are having the same experience, or different ones, when all we have access to is the fact that they use the same words, or different ones, to describe what they claim to have felt.

[_Gordon]

I don't find these repeated claims by Gordon that he has special experiences and that he can be sure that no-one (or perhaps just hardly anyone) in other religions has anything of the same kind to be remotely convincing.

Gordon is not going to give up his claim, of course. The question is rather why he should expect anyone else to feel compelled to assent to it. Can anyone other than Gordon see any reason for according him the status he claims?

First off, Chap, I don't claim exclusivity on such experiences (nor are they particular to LDS), but that many in other religions don't seek for them (while many do have them, though)...they don't see a need, from my experiences. Secondly, I'm not expecting anyone to assent to anything. I'm having to defend myself from numerous posters implying/stating that I'm wrong. So be it. Don't accept it. Now be on your merry way, rather than continously trying to show me the errors of my thinking, then falsely asserting that I'm doing anything other than defending/explaining my stance.

[_Gordon]

Different how?

Not jibberish, but actually being able to speak other languages.

[_Gordon]

Just because you have 'feelings' of love, admiration, devotion, ... for another human being.
It doesn't mean that GOD is telling you it is meant to be and the other person involved is wrong for not feeling the same.

Just because millions of Muslim people read the Quran and believe it does not make it true.

Just because you condition yourself through starvation and meditation on the 1st Sunday of the month doesn't mean what you are hearing is true, it just makes you highly emotional.

Who are you speaking to?

[_Gordon]

What you seem to be saying is that the Holy Ghost can confirm things through a variety of differing feelings and sensations. How does that help us identify which feelings and sensations are from the Holy Ghost and which are either self generated or from the adversary?

Well, I guess you can't, now can you?

I wonder if the person lying next to me is actually my wife, a self-generated image, or the devil...one can never tell these things.

[_Drifting]

I don't find these repeated claims by Gordon that he has special experiences and that he can be sure that no-one (or perhaps just hardly anyone) in other religions has anything of the same kind to be remotely convincing.

Gordon is not going to give up his claim, of course. The question is rather why he should expect anyone else to feel compelled to assent to it. Can anyone other than Gordon see any reason for according him the status he claims?

First off, Chap, I don't claim exclusivity on such experiences (nor are they particular to LDS), but that many in other religions don't seek for them (while many do have them, though)...they don't see a need, from my experiences. Secondly, I'm not expecting anyone to assent to anything. I'm having to defend myself from numerous posters implying/stating that I'm wrong. So be it. Don't accept it. Now be on your merry way, rather than continously trying to show me the errors of my thinking, then falsely asserting that I'm doing anything other than defending/explaining my stance.

For the record.
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying you have no way of knowing that you are right. You only believe you are right based on a series of differing feelings and sensations that you choose to interpret as coming from the Holy Ghost. Whilst others, experiencing these same sensations and feelings interpret them as self generated.