Romney's Mormon Campaign

[_beastie]

Hi Beastie,

I agree that the campaign has lied. I'll need to take a closer look to see how it stacks up to Obama/Bush/Kerry/Gore/Clinton lies over the years.

in my opinion, trying to tie Romney to a woman's death from cancer was absolutely shameful. I don't want to take away from the tragedy of her situation but to trie to lay that at Romney's feet was about as dishonest as you can get. One thing I really appreciated about the RNC last night was the stories shared by the many companies Bain helped launch and turn around. I had no idea Staples was funded by Bain initially. 90k employees today .... and I love Staples!

I have to say last night was the first time I was "proud" of Mitt Romney. He came off very positive and very confident -- Presidential.

Hell, I even liked Eastwood. He's like your crazy grandpa at Thanksgiving. A rambling mess for sure ... but a rambling mess with some truly funny moments.

Sorry for the derail....

Seth

Yes, that ad was shameful. It was also not produced by Obama.

[_beastie]

Question: One of Romney's primary ads has been claiming that Obama, on the sly, removed the work requirement from welfare.

True or False?

[_sethpayne]

Question: One of Romney's primary ads has been claiming that Obama, on the sly, removed the work requirement from welfare.

True or False?

If I recall correctly this is true. My understanding is that Obama rolled back many of the Clinton welfare reform work requirements.

I could be wrong.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think this thread will easily descend into a They Lied and Here's the Link so I Can Prove It, but the bottom line is what do you want from either political party?

At the end of the day you get a relatively Conservative agenda with Romney, and a relatively Liberal agenda with Obama.

Politics is an endless game of herding cats in order to appear unified under some ideology, but there's enough variance that forever-arguing ensues and it becomes a circle jerky game of tit for tat. It's a waste of time. You know what you're getting, more or less, with each candidate. If you claim you don't then perhaps you should sit this one out...

- VRDRC

[_dblagent007]

Question: One of Romney's primary ads has been claiming that Obama, on the sly, removed the work requirement from welfare.

True or False?

Obama recently changed policy to allow states to apply for waivers from the work requirement. That is true. This was done by the HHS agency and not through Congress so whether it was on the "sly" is in the eye of the beholder.

Obama's response is that he is not doing this to allow welfare recipients to stop working, but rather to allow states to experiment with different and innovative ways to get welfare recipients to work that wouldn't be permitted under the existing rules. Well, maybe that's true, but before I believe it, I want to know what "innovations" require a waiver to implement.

[_dblagent007]

Can you give some good examples of Biden's lies?

The most recent one would be Biden's remark that Republicans want to put African Americans back in chains. This is factually false and if a Republican said anything like that he/she would be absolutely crucified by the liberal media.

At another level, some of this is sort of like when you ask TBMs what lies are contained in the Nauvoo Expositor. They will point to a lot of rhetorical language that says things like Joseph Smith is a depraved demon who came from hell and say that is factually incorrect. Well, yeah, but I'm not sure they meant it to be a factual statement.

My impression of politicians is that they are experts at making statements that are technically correct, but sensational and potentially misleading. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the liberal media holds Republicans to a much higher standard than Democrats. Here are some good examples of this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ndard.html

[_beastie]

Obama recently changed policy to allow states to apply for waivers from the work requirement. That is true. This was done by the HHS agency and not through Congress so whether it was on the "sly" is in the eye of the beholder.

Obama's response is that he is not doing this to allow welfare recipients to stop working, but rather to allow states to experiment with different and innovative ways to get welfare recipients to work that wouldn't be permitted under the existing rules. Well, maybe that's true, but before I believe it, I want to know what "innovations" require a waiver to implement.

Well, the fact that two republican governors are the ones that requested the waiver should mean something.

Here's what it actually says, according to this factcheck:

The Health and Human Services department “will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of [the 1996 reform legislation],” it says.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... re-reform/

The problem as I understand it is that the recession and slow recovery has made it difficult to meet that requirement, hence the request for waivers to try something else.

[_beastie]

I think this thread will easily descend into a They Lied and Here's the Link so I Can Prove It, but the bottom line is what do you want from either political party?

At the end of the day you get a relatively Conservative agenda with Romney, and a relatively Liberal agenda with Obama.

Politics is an endless game of herding cats in order to appear unified under some ideology, but there's enough variance that forever-arguing ensues and it becomes a circle jerky game of tit for tat. It's a waste of time. You know what you're getting, more or less, with each candidate. If you claim you don't then perhaps you should sit this one out...

- VRDRC

You're probably right.

I know all politicians lie. I just don't understand how Romney can live with the lies he's been telling, or has allowed to be told, in his campaign when he's supposed to be honest in all his dealings with people. Hence my speculation that he's simply following the pattern set by his leaders.

[_beastie]

The most recent one would be Biden's remark that Republicans want to put African Americans back in chains. This is factually false and if a Republican said anything like that he/she would be absolutely crucified by the liberal media.

At another level, some of this is sort of like when you ask TBMs what lies are contained in the Nauvoo Expositor. They will point to a lot of rhetorical language that says things like Joseph Smith is a depraved demon who came from hell and say that is factually incorrect. Well, yeah, but I'm not sure they meant it to be a factual statement.

My impression of politicians is that they are experts at making statements that are technically correct, but sensational and potentially misleading. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the liberal media holds Republicans to a much higher standard than Democrats. Here are some good examples of this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ndard.html

He didn't say that Republicans wanted to put African Americans back in chains. He was speaking to an African American group and was referring to Ryan's statement that they want to "unshackle" the economy. Biden was saying that the effect would be the exact opposite.

This is an example of his foot-in-mouth, but it's not a "lie". It wasn't meant to be a factual statement, as you said. It was using the same figurative language Ryan used. It was foot-in-mouth because of particular setting.

No sane person would think Biden meant actual slavery.

But a sane person would absolutely see Romney's welfare ad and think "Hey, Obama is no longer requiring work for welfare", and that is factually incorrect. In other words, a lie.

I do concede that all politicians lie. And perhaps my problem is that I took the promises I made before God and subsequent interviews about those promises very seriously, and assume that someone as active and seemingly devout as Romney does, too.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

And Obama hasn't lied? More than Romney even (if Romney ever lied at all). We already know that the Left reflexively shouts "Liar!" when someone tells the truth. The Ryan speech is a case in point.

This is my sister's automatic response too. And never an example given either. I'm not naïve enough to believe that Obama has ever lied, but let's put some instances out here to be evaluated, hey?

It is my experience that the Right reflexibley shiouts "liar" when someone tells teh truth. And with absolutely no information to back themselves up.

Today, of course, the refrain on my Facebook & email is that the fact checkers are liars. With absolutely no information to back up that claim.

I'm so weary with this crap.