William Neeley and the Vanishing Gold Ledge

[_Blixa]

Wang, I'm very interested in this document. Would you by chance be willing to mail me a photocopy or email me a scan?

Sure. I could scan and email or send you a hardcopy. Just PM me your address or email.

Please update us as this develops.

I don't agree with Chap. When I first read your OP, I thought I had heard a variant of the story, but didn't have time to track it down. As Chris and other posters have shown, there are indeed variants. Also, like Chris, I didn't immediately dismiss out of hand the alleged statements by BY because they do ring true with his position on developing a mining industry in the area.

I first assumed a quite possible naturalistic explanation: Neeley found a vein of pyrite or a pseudomorph. I think it is commonly found in Utah on limestone "shelves." (My great aunt and uncle were a prodigious rock hounds and I still have some stunning fool's gold specimens they gave me.) Pyrite breaks off quite easily in the way described in Neeley's story, as well (I'm not sure if gold does). Neeley took this sample to Young and was told to back off. Some "expert" could have even verified it as "gold" first. And when Neeley went back, he simply couldn't find the right place

[_Chap]

Please update us as this develops.

I don't agree with Chap. When I first read your OP, I thought I had heard a variant of the story, but didn't have time to track it down. As Chris and other posters have shown, there are indeed variants. Also, like Chris, I didn't immediately dismiss out of hand the alleged statements by BY because they do ring true with his position on developing a mining industry in the area.

I first assumed a quite possible naturalistic explanation: Neeley found a vein of pyrite or a pseudomorph. I think it is commonly found in Utah on limestone "shelves." (My great aunt and uncle were a prodigious rock hounds and I still have some stunning fool's gold specimens they gave me.) Pyrite breaks off quite easily in the way described in Neeley's story, as well (I'm not sure if gold does). Neeley took this sample to Young and was told to back off. Some "expert" could have even verified it as "gold" first. And when Neeley went back, he simply couldn't find the right place

I have the feeling that you meant to post more than this, particularly because you ended without a punctuation mark.

OK, so first you assumed a possible naturalistic explanation. This seems to have involved Neeley taking his supposed 'fool's gold' sample (technically iron sulfide, FeS2) to an expert (in the OP said to be "a jeweler and watch maker by the name of George Bywater, who was then in business in the City"), who mistakes it for gold. It really does not seem likely that a jeweler involved in doing business by buying and selling articles in precious metals could have made such an egregious error as to mistake this mineral for gold. There are simple tests available to distinguish the two. So a naturalistic explanation such as you propose does not work well if you accept the OP as it stands.

So then what? Did you have another, non-naturalistic, explanation?

[_Blixa]

Please update us as this develops.

I don't agree with Chap. When I first read your OP, I thought I had heard a variant of the story, but didn't have time to track it down. As Chris and other posters have shown, there are indeed variants. Also, like Chris, I didn't immediately dismiss out of hand the alleged statements by BY because they do ring true with his position on developing a mining industry in the area.

I first assumed a quite possible naturalistic explanation: Neeley found a vein of pyrite or a pseudomorph. I think it is commonly found in Utah on limestone "shelves." (My great aunt and uncle were a prodigious rock hounds and I still have some stunning fool's gold specimens they gave me.) Pyrite breaks off quite easily in the way described in Neeley's story, as well (I'm not sure if gold does). Neeley took this sample to Young and was told to back off. Some "expert" could have even verified it as "gold" first. And when Neeley went back, he simply couldn't find the right place

I have the feeling that you meant to post more than this, particularly because you ended without a punctuation mark.

OK, so first you assumed a possible naturalistic explanation. This seems to have involved Neeley taking his supposed 'fool's gold' sample (technically iron sulfide, FeS2) to an expert (in the OP said to be "a jeweler and watch maker by the name of George Bywater, who was then in business in the City"), who mistakes it for gold. It really does not seem likely that a jeweler involved in doing business by buying and selling articles in precious metals could have made such an egregious error as to mistake this mineral for gold. There are simple tests available to distinguish the two. So a naturalistic explanation such as you propose does not work well if you accept the OP as it stands.

So then what? Did you have another, non-naturalistic, explanation?

The lack of a punctuation mark was due to not wearing my glasses and/or not enough morning coffee.

I simply thought the details about the sample's verification by an expert was possibly misunderstood or garbled. This certainly could have happened as the events in the affidavit are being recounted years later by someone who heard the story.

My reason for immediately assuming a different scenario then you did was 1) the BY statement "rang true" to me, and 2) the description of breaking off pieces of a ledge sounded like pyrite more than gold.

In other words, I thought there was a bit more plausible rationale for elements in the story than you did.

The emergence of variant stories in this thread is quite interesting and I await hearing Chris's take after he examines what Everybody Wang Chung sends him.

[_CaliforniaKid]

The emergence of variant stories in this thread is quite interesting and I await hearing Chris's take after he examines what Everybody Wang Chung sends him.

My take is that there are more liars in the world than most of us would like to admit. In my study of treasure tales, I've found that there's a certain type of personality that enjoys generating such tales, and is willing to go to great lengths to give them credibility. These storytellers enjoy the notoriety that the stories bring, but I suspect most of them also genuinely believe there are treasures out there to be found, and they use the stories to motivate their friends to get out there and help in the hunt.

So here would be my guess. William Neeley is the local treasure enthusiast. Convinced that there's gold in them thar mountains, he wants to start a mine. But you can't start a mine without investors, so he cooks up a cockamamie story about a ledge of gold, and spends his savings to buy a gold nugget as "evidence" to back up the story. Then he goes to the richest man in Utah, the man who controls most of the major industry in the territory: Brigham Young. Young says no, and tells Neeley to drop it. So Neeley doesn't get his mine. But never one to let a good story go to waste, Neeley milks it for all it's worth, and it enters the canon of local legend.

[_Chap]

The emergence of variant stories in this thread is quite interesting and I await hearing Chris's take after he examines what Everybody Wang Chung sends him.

My take is that there are more liars in the world than most of us would like to admit. In my study of treasure tales, I've found that there's a certain type of personality that enjoys generating such tales, and is willing to go to great lengths to give them credibility. These storytellers enjoy the notoriety that the stories bring, but I suspect most of them also genuinely believe there are treasures out there to be found, and they use the stories to motivate their friends to get out there and help in the hunt.

So here would be my guess. William Neeley is the local treasure enthusiast. Convinced that there's gold in them thar mountains, he wants to start a mine. But you can't start a mine without investors, so he cooks up a cockamamie story about a ledge of gold, and spends his savings to buy a gold nugget as "evidence" to back up the story. Then he goes to the richest man in Utah, the man who controls most of the major industry in the territory: Brigham Young. Young says no, and tells Neeley to drop it. So Neeley doesn't get his mine. But never one to let a good story go to waste, Neeley milks it for all it's worth, and it enters the canon of local legend.

That certainly sounds a possible mechanism.

Of course the only thing that is certain is that the core of this story is made up with the intention of impressing people.

I don't have a problem with admitting that the world is full of people who are - shall we say - more imaginative than they are scrupulous about keeping what they say in correspondence with what is often a more boring reality.