Inactivity and "Coming out"

[_just me]

Sad how cicero does not want to regain his testimony. The witnesses can certainly help him. But he got caught up in the mumbo jumbo of the critics.

Some truth cannot be undone, no matter how much you try.

Wizard of Oz: Sad how Dorothy does not want to regain her belief in the great and powerful Oz. The smoke and flames can certainly help her. But she got caught up in the mumbo jumbo of that damned little dog pulling back the curtain.

Like

[_Blixa]

The Good Eleven

[_Bob Loblaw]

I've always loved this one (bcspace probably does, too).

An Amendment to Be

[Guest]

Sad how cicero does not want to regain his testimony. The witnesses can certainly help him. But he got caught up in the mumbo jumbo of the critics.

Aw shucks, I am so touched by your concern (actually you should just envision me prominently displaying both of my middle fingers to you). Would you like me to criticize some antis or exmos for you so that I can assure that I actually can think for myself?

As I said before, arguing the finer points of the various evidences for and against the Church's claims with you is a pointless exercise. I know all about the 11 Book of Mormon witnesses. I actually believe that the 11 witnesses are one of the strongest pieces of evidence that the Church has in favor of the traditional Book of Mormon story. But I don't just stop there and say "case closed."

Even the Church teaches that, while all evidences in favor of the veracity of the Book of Mormon are interesting and important, the ultimate "proof" that anyone can have of its veracity is the promise contained in Moroni 10:3-5, and it is precisely THAT test that I have come to doubt. For me, it goes much deeper than chiasmus, metallurgy, witnesses, horses, DNA or geography. A lot of people rely on the "proof" they obtained from following Moroni's promise to get them through all that stuff. I am no longer able to do that.

[_Equality]

These go to 11.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Aw shucks, I am so touched by your concern (actually you should just envision me prominently displaying both of my middle fingers to you). Would you like me to criticize some antis or exmos for you so that I can assure that I actually can think for myself?

So you noticed the passive-aggressive hate simmering under why me's posts, too? At least he's subtler about it than Wade Englund.

As I said before, arguing the finer points of the various evidences for and against the Church's claims with you is a pointless exercise. I know all about the 11 Book of Mormon witnesses. I actually believe that the 11 witnesses are one of the strongest pieces of evidence that the Church has in favor of the traditional Book of Mormon story. But I don't just stop there and say "case closed."

Exactly. Held up against the overwhelming evidence that the book is a fraud, the witnesses suddenly don't seem so compelling.

Even the Church teaches that, while all evidences in favor of the veracity of the Book of Mormon are interesting and important, the ultimate "proof" that anyone can have of its veracity is the promise contained in Moroni 10:3-5, and it is precisely THAT test that I have come to doubt. For me, it goes much deeper than chiasmus, metallurgy, witnesses, horses, DNA or geography. A lot of people rely on the "proof" they obtained from following Moroni's promise to get them through all that stuff. I am no longer able to to do that.

It sucks to realize that your spiritual experiences have led you to believe in things that are not true.

[_Themis]

Sad how cicero does not want to regain his testimony. The witnesses can certainly help him. But he got caught up in the mumbo jumbo of the critics.

Some truth cannot be undone, no matter how much you try.

Wizard of Oz: Sad how Dorothy does not want to regain her belief in the great and powerful Oz. The smoke and flames can certainly help her. But she got caught up in the mumbo jumbo of that damned little dog pulling back the curtain.

LOL want? Whyme is to funny. Here is a guy who thinks it's sad to change one's testimony, but not so sad to have one but never live it.

[_Themis]

But there are 12 witnesses to the Book of Mormon.

That is if we iclude the Whitmer's mom. She never denied her experience either.

He is including Joseph.

[_Stormy Waters]

Back to the OP. Keep quiet or speak up? Each has it upsides and downsides. Obviously how you do it is important. I think in part there is almost a obligation to speak up so others who may want out won't feel as alone. Sometimes I wonder how many have stopped believing and are so afraid of the social costs that they keep quiet.

For me coming out has almost completely solidified that I will never go back. At first people want to discuss your concerns, but if you demonstrate a decent knowledge of polygamy/polyandry you'll usually scare them off. Frankly apologists don't have answers and neither do local leaders.

[_Bob Loblaw]

For me coming out has almost completely solidified that I will never go back. At first people want to discuss your concerns, but if you demonstrate a decent knowledge of polygamy/polyandry you'll usually scare them off. Frankly apologists don't have answers and neither do local leaders.

That's the problem: there are no good answers, and the church knows it. Hence the crappy apologetics of people like Jeff Lindsay and Wade Englund, and the nasty attacks of the FARMS crowd.