Inactivity and "Coming out"

[_Tchild]

In Las Vegas, I saw David Copperfield "disappear" a woman on his stage right in front of my eyes. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I would have never believed it.

I will never deny what I saw.

[_Themis]

sorry to go off-topic from the OP, but all this chatter about the witnesses brings to mind a question i've often wondered about...

did Joseph Smith actually find/create a set of metal plates?

it's pretty clear from a variety of accounts that he had *something* hidden by that box/sack/tablecloth. but I'm thinking that whatever it was, it must have been far less convincing to the eye than, for example, the Kinderhook plates. because if not, there would have been little risk and much to gain by Joseph showing his plates to some neutral witnesses in the nieghborhood. but as it was, he showed them only to his most trusted associates and family members, and we can't even say for certain whether he showed it to them (i don't count spiritual visions as "showing", obviously).

so what exactly was "it"?

I think it possible Joseph created a less believable set of plates then the Kinderhook plates, which is why he needed to invent the idea God commanded him not to let anyone see them, except for a few, and under controlled conditions. Of course some evidence suggests plates were never really present. He was experienced with treasure hunting and getting people to believe they are seeing things that are not really there.

[_Themis]

In Las Vegas, I saw David Copperfield "disappear" a woman on his stage right in front of my eyes. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I would have never believed it.

I will never deny what I saw.

If you saw it, then it must be true.

[_palerobber]

I think it possible Joseph created a less believable set of plates then the Kinderhook plates, which is why he needed to invent the idea God commanded him not to let anyone see them, except for a few, and under controlled conditions. Of course some evidence suggests plates were never really present. He was experienced with treasure hunting and getting people to believe they are seeing things that are not really there.

some evidence suggests plates were never really present? i've not heard that. would that view depend on invalidating the experiences reported by Lucy Mack and Emma?

all of the accounts seem to agree that the leafs were about the thickness of tin plate. so another intruguing question is if Joseph found/made some tin plates and then later disposed of them, how would he have done it and where? could he have easily melted them down? and if he instead buried them, could they still exist today? no, they would have rusted to nothing long ago, right?

[_Themis]

some evidence suggests plates were never really present? i've not heard that.

Just some of the descriptions have suggested things like the spiritual eye.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Just some of the descriptions have suggested things like the spiritual eye.

My guess is that Joseph Smith just combined credulity about "second sight" with some misdirection.

[_Themis]

Just some of the descriptions have suggested things like the spiritual eye.

My guess is that Joseph Smith just combined credulity about "second sight" with some misdirection.

He did have previous experience in doing just that. It helped that many already considered second sight in the same way he did. Just go up to the celestial threads and you will see a group of people who think some of the same kind of things.