Mormon Church negotiates for Italian Welfare!

[_Strevel]

The Italians crated this system as a source of funding for the Catholic Church, their Italian Church. It is the way they created to give $$ to their faith. Now, Salt Lake, as well as others have found a loop hole that allows them to get a portion of the funds as well. Salt Lake has "hogged up" to the trough wanting their portion as well. The very group that has taught us all the value of work, productivity, "make your $$$ by the sweat of your brow" is now conflicting their own teachings and practice with others and wanting what I openly and clearly call "State Welfare" on their part. It was never created for the Mormons or anyone else. it was created for Catholics, by Catholics, to support their faith. The idea of forcing 10% of a persons $ from them by scaring them is foreign to Catholicism. People give voluntarily.

I am not stating that the Catholic faith is on welfare and find that statement to be silly. What I cam clearly, openly stating is, Salt Lake should follow their own teachings. When I see them walking up with their hand out stating "me, too"....it was not created for them.

It might be compared to you giving money to your favorite Charity, and another charity coming along and wanting and presuming they have a share in it. It is offensive and it is very bad.

Mormon Moochers is what I call it. They want their share of someone elses money. They have no share. Let them go out and start from grass roots and do as they teach in the US. Let them build from what they have. If they can afford a two billion shopping mall in UT, they can afford to run their own Borg, I mean Church.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww

Don
I have now checked to receive responses. Previously it was unchecked.

what are your feelings on the Mormons wanting tax payer money in Italy??

Interesting information, Vegasdon. Do you have any online sources that we could go to in order to check this claim out?

All I can say is that the LDS Church is accustomed to being subsidized by all of the people in this country who do pay taxes in the form of tithes, offerings, and their tax-exempt status.

Obviously, they get their own form of handouts in this country, so it would not be surprising to me at all to find them approaching the Italian government with their hands out waiting for their cut of those tax dollars.

In a way, the LDS Church is like any other corporation, except that it is managed by men who are less savvy than your average CEO and who are unlikely to be fired for screwing up. In this country, corporations and banks get billions of dollars in taxpayer welfare. It is in that mode of doing business that the LDS Church has its hands outstretched to feed on the labors of the Italian worker.

[_Strevel]

Imagine a guy in court, any country, standing before a judge and proffering the argument that it was not he that committed the murder, but his hand. See, it was not really the central entity, but a corporate for profit hand that did it. Therefore, he should not be accountable for the actions of the hand and should walk free.

Salt Lake is saying no less.

Don, Las Vegas

Just like it does in Utah, the Church does its commercial investment activities through corporations that are taxable in the ordinary way. In this case the farms in question are owned by a corporate entity called Agreserves Ltd. It is not a "foreign non-profit organization" but a UK registered for-profit company. It does business in the same way, and competing in the same marketplace, as other UK agribusinesses.

Agricultural subsidies are controversial in many parts of the world. The lack of them is controversial in other parts (and sometimes the same parts.) But there's nothing unlawful about them. And please note that the subsidies in question are going to Agreserves, not the Church. The fact that the Church owns Agreserves is interesting, but not relevant to this discussion.

God's own true church should never be in the for-profit food production industry, unless there are no hungry left anywhere on earth. That the church owns for-profit agricultural businesses is a disgrace.

[_Strevel]

Pahoran,
If I seem to have or project an amount of energetic communication in this issue please know for a fact that it is aimed at.. "the issue" and not any person at all. I love everyone and wish them well. But when the LDS leaders are filling out forms, meeting with the Italian government to discuss how much $$$ they can get from the government of Italy from the Church tax system, well, in my mind, they want in the public purse...welfare. call it as you will, they want free money from the state just for being there, and this is contrary to their own teachings and up to this time, supposed practice.

They mounted political moves against people that did them no harm in CA under Proposition 8. They literally were "metaphorically speaking", not killing the residents, but building the rail cars and laying the track to send those that they chose to the camps. They say, "Why, ...what.. we killed no one". Uh, yes, you did Salt lake. If you have to sneak and hide, to operate "hand in glove" meeting with your members in private, noting openly that the LDS Church is not involved, but you all meet and discuss where to meet in private at t eh LDS Church...you are crooks. Salt Lake is taking, asking for, exprecting and will demand welfare from the Italian state.

I am looking them right in the eye and telling them ...you are wrong, apologetically, you are applying for welfare from the Italian State and acting as if you are not! How embarassing!

Don

Gosh. Don't we call that 'poisoning the well', or something?

Oh, I'm quite sure you'd be an expert on that topic, Chap.

I have read your material, ignoring your spiteful editorialising, of course. All of which is interesting and, despite your rather obvious hostility, quite benign. However, we seem to have drifted away from the topic. The Church's various subsidiary corporations do business in the same business environment as their competitors, suppliers and customers. As business conditions change, those corporations adjust their activities, and the Church may divest itself of some investments or acquire new ones.

The Church itself, however, does not seek public money for its core activities, and does not accept it when it is on offer. That is the material point at issue in this thread.

The Church will not be accepting Italian "welfare."

Regards,
Pahoran

[_madeleine]

Hi, several countries in Europe have a "church tax". The details vary from country to country, but in Italy, it is a compulsory tax where the taxpayer designates the money be given to a particular religion or the taxpayer can can choose instead state run social assistance programs.

The list of religions eligible for selection is short. What would be the reason for the Mormon church to not accept money that a taxpayer has specifically designated for them?

[_Pahoran]

Pahoran,
If I seem to have or project an amount of energetic communication in this issue please know for a fact that it is aimed at.. "the issue" and not any person at all. I love everyone and wish them well. But when the LDS leaders are filling out forms, meeting with the Italian government to discuss how much $$$ they can get from the government of Italy from the Church tax system, well, in my mind, they want in the public purse...welfare. call it as you will, they want free money from the state just for being there, and this is contrary to their own teachings and up to this time, supposed practice.

And it's also not what they are doing.

You don't actually read what is posted in response to you, do you?

In accordance with the Church's actual practice, it's not looking for Italian tax money. It's looking for official recognition because that makes it easier to build meetinghouses, get bishops and branch presidents registered as marriage celebrants and get visas for missionaries.

Snip long off-topic rant about Prop 8.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Drifting]

And it's also not what they are doing.

You don't actually read what is posted in response to you, do you?

In accordance with the Church's actual practice, it's not looking for Italian tax money. It's looking for official recognition because that makes it easier to build meetinghouses, get bishops and branch presidents registered as marriage celebrants and get visas for missionaries.

Snip long off-topic rant about Prop 8.

Regards,
Pahoran

No it's looking to legally skim 10% off the new Italian members and whisk it off to Salt Lake City for a new Mall or something...

[_Pahoran]

No it's looking to legally skim 10% off the new Italian members and whisk it off to Salt Lake City for a new Mall or something...

Hey, maybe Italy will be the first country outside the US to generate a positive cash flow. Some country has to be first.

But as all honest critics of the Church, if such there be, readily acknowledge, the Mall that some people obsess about wasn't built with tithing funds.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_SteelHead]

Oh look..... Pahoran has come to play. Now he is full on trolling. Let's sit back and see what he catches.

[_Drifting]

But as all honest critics of the Church, if such there be, readily acknowledge, the Mall that some people obsess about wasn't built with tithing funds.

Regards,
Pahoran

You are quite right, it was built with the profits coming from investing tithing funds. A COMPLETELY different thing entirely....

In terms of positive cash flow - if you're interested in some discussion on the topic, have a look at the thread about Church financials in the UK.

[_SteelHead]

Aiaiai.... Drifting ignore that bait.