I have come out of self-imposed exile to make a few comments.
Maxrep wrote:Pahoran seems to have taken exception to my signature line;
"The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; " - Apostle Heber C. Kimball
Of course. I dislike it for exactly the same reason you like it: because it's a lie.
Maxrep wrote:So he started a thread titled, "Feeling The Honesty About Heber C. Kimball" over at MAD.
Yesterday evening the thread was locked after my response(#9). Today, to my surprise, I see that at 5:20pm, Pahoran was allowed to slip in the final word on a thread that had been locked close to 24 hours ago.
Clearly, the rules only exist to be applied against critics.
Clearly, if jumping to conclusions was an olympic sport, you'd be a medal contender.
Maxrep wrote:The funny thing was, I was quite surprised to see that I had made the last post on the thread before it was locked. My best guess was that I just happened to hit "submit" right before the mod hit "lock".
The funny thing was, you made the last two posts on the thread before it was locked. How do you explain that one away?
Fence Sitter wrote: Pahoran attacks anyone he sees as a critical to the Church. His methods cause more damage than his acerbic criticisms prevent. I don't think he cares about collateral damage to lurkers.
Pahoran is my hero. After my experience on Postmo and all the antimormonism there and all the crap that I took there and then when I discovered the FAIR board and read pahoran's posts, I thought that he was a great guy. He battled the critics and usually won. So, I can understand why you guys may not like him.
I thought your hero(s) were people in light cotton, and those imaginary nuns and priests you hang out with.
Maxrep wrote:Pahoran seems to have taken exception to my signature line;
"The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; " - Apostle Heber C. Kimball
So he started a thread titled, "Feeling The Honesty About Heber C. Kimball" over at MAD...
By taking issue with this quote, it sounds like Pahoran is defending the notion that righteous Mormon missionaries of the 19th Century followed the ethic of bringing the prettiest converts back to their leaders rather than marrying them themselves.
Another splendid example of your "analytics," I see.
I take issue with the quote because it is spurious. It was offered in the New York Times with no indication of when it was supposed to have been said or who was supposed to have heard it. It does not reflect Heber C. Kimball's known views.
If this pit was really the idyllic setting for deep and meaningful discussions you delude yourselves that it is, you might have actually figured that out without my help.
Pahoran wrote:Yes, that's why I generally stay away from this pit. I can't compete with talent like yours.
Regards, Pahoran
Hey Pahoran since you wanted to talk about not feeling the honesty how about we talk about Joseh Smith lying to his wife and the general membership about polygamy and why we should trust such a person.
Oh and by the way keep in mind that threads don't just get shut down when they don't go your way. You won't be coddled here.
"The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; " - Apostle Heber C. Kimball
This quote, or one like it, is indeed in the JoD.
Too bad jokes made by 19th century general authorities don't come across such today in black and white.
My standard statement for fast and testimony meeting was to say that my wife told me to exercise some independence and come up and bear my testimony. Somebody reading a transcript of that wouldn't get the guffaws it provoked; same with this statement by Elder Kimball. In reality, when he made this statement, the British papers were filled with cartoonish challenges against Mormon Elders doing this very thing -- spiriting off young women and only young women. It looks as though this statement is a reaction to that.
Pahoran wrote:Yes, that's why I generally stay away from this pit. I can't compete with talent like yours.
Aw shucks, the legendary king of zing has condescended to speak to us fine denizens of the cosmic sewer. I will candidly admit that folks like you and Hamblin have always brought out the worst in me.
Yes, that's why I generally stay away from this pit. I can't compete with talent like yours.
Regards, Pahoran
So the kiwi thinks this place is a pit and that we all are apostates. Yet he has posted he enough to attain First Presidency status...kettle met pot, I have some.news, you are both black.
Bot: The sole source for that quote is, to my knowledge, a New York Times article that doesn't identify the source (it is only an unnamed correspondent). It is certainly possible that it was a misinterpreted joke (or something that just looks much worse out of context as you noted), but it could easily just be hearsay or even a spurious fabrication. I don't simply dismiss it as bogus like Pahoran does, but I also wouldn't quote it either without adding serious caveats regarding its source.
Kamenraider above identified the JOD quote that is most similar (but which is subject to many different interpretations):
Journal of Discourses Vol. 6, pg. 256:
"You are sent out as shepherds to gather the sheep together; and remember that they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You understand that."
Cicero wrote:Bot: The sole source for that quote is, to my knowledge, a New York Times article that doesn't identify the source (it is only an unnamed correspondent). It is certainly possible that it was a misinterpreted joke (or something that just looks much worse out of context as you noted), but it could easily just be hearsay or even a spurious fabrication. I don't simply dismiss it as bogus like Pahoran does, but I also wouldn't quote it either without adding serious caveats regarding its source.
Kamenraider above identified the JOD quote that is most similar (but which is subject to many different interpretations):
Journal of Discourses Vol. 6, pg. 256:
"You are sent out as shepherds to gather the sheep together; and remember that they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You understand that."
No; a quote very much like that is in the JoD. I've chased it down. I just can't find it today.