Drifting wrote: Why Me, an angel with a flaming sword told them to leave the Church. That's more believable, right?
Since it took him several years to reinstate polygamy, it just may have been a flaming sword.
28At that time, when David saw that the LORD had answered him on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite, he offered sacrifice there. 29For the tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses had made in the wilderness, and the altar of burnt offering were in the high place at Gibeon at that time. 30But David could not go before it to inquire of God, for he was terrified by the sword of the angel of the LORD.
16Then David lifted up his eyes and saw the angel of the LORD standing between earth and heaven, with his drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, covered with sackcloth, fell on their faces. 17David said to God, “Is it not I who commanded to count the people? Indeed, I am the one who has sinned and done very wickedly, but these sheep, what have they done? O LORD my God, please let Your hand be against me and my father’s household, but not against Your people that they should be plagued.”
<< 1 Chronicles 21 >>
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
moksha wrote:I was just thinking what an extraordinary thing it would be to have the narratives of this cohort group of 18 (no names please to protect the innocent) spiritual odyssey, given in a paper or presentation. If it is factual, then at Sunstone or the Dialogue, if it is faith-promoting then at FAIR or the the Ensign.
Some might just make up their story and follow the standard exmormon blueprint: I discovered Joseph Smith was a polygamist; I discovered MMM; I believe in same sex marriage; The church is not what it claims to be; etc.
When in reality they just may be lazy, don't care or lost interest.
Yes because all formerly active youth leave becasue they are lazy, don't care and lose interest...right? But I believe that in the case of these 18, they all left for different reasons and yes some becasue of losing interest in the church, concluding that it wasn't true...but all becasue the church didn't meet their individul varied needs. And I think that is the point. while the church does a great job of catering to the needs of some ,about 30% of its membrship, it fails to meet the needs of 70% of its claimed 14 million members...the question is why?
The lost 18...is a result of a very serious problem in the church, it fails to meet the needs of a majority of its membership and as a result...it is losing its best and brightest
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Craig Paxton wrote: Yes because all formerly active youth leave becasue they are lazy, don't care and lose interest...right? But I believe that in the case of these 18, they all left for different reasons and yes some becasue of losing interest in the church, concluding that it wasn't true...but all becasue the church didn't meet their individul varied needs. And I think that is the point. while the church does a great job of catering to the needs of some ,about 30% of its membrship, it fails to meet the needs of 70% of its claimed 14 million members...the question is why?
The lost 18...is a result of a very serious problem in the church, it fails to meet the needs of a majority of its membership and as a result...it is losing its best and brightest
I think that it is tough to be Mormon these days. Much easier to be 'free' to do what one wants and not have a 'big brother' advising you.
What needs should the church meet? There is an interesting article in the September liahona about "Keeping Your Life in Balance". It has 8 points plus advice. I think that that article can meet many people's needs. And certainly people would be better off if they followed the advice.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
SteelHead wrote:The article? A couple of general life advice points followed by a bunch of religious platitudes. I give it a 2 out of 10.
Adlai Stevenson's description of Republicans comes to mind. People like Ballard (and why me) "stroke platitudes until they purr like epigrams."
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
The article wasn't very helpful. I've found more informative stuff in the Self Help isle of the bookstore or eHow.com. LOL I agree with a few of the bullet points, but it wasn't anything new and he didn't give any helpful suggestions on how to actually apply the ideas.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Craig Paxton wrote: Yes because all formerly active youth leave becasue they are lazy, don't care and lose interest...right? But I believe that in the case of these 18, they all left for different reasons and yes some becasue of losing interest in the church, concluding that it wasn't true...but all becasue the church didn't meet their individul varied needs. And I think that is the point. while the church does a great job of catering to the needs of some ,about 30% of its membrship, it fails to meet the needs of 70% of its claimed 14 million members...the question is why?
The lost 18...is a result of a very serious problem in the church, it fails to meet the needs of a majority of its membership and as a result...it is losing its best and brightest
I think that it is tough to be Mormon these days. Much easier to be 'free' to do what one wants and not have a 'big brother' advising you.
What needs should the church meet? There is an interesting article in the September liahona about "Keeping Your Life in Balance". It has 8 points plus advice. I think that that article can meet many people's needs. And certainly people would be better off if they followed the advice.
IF it is the churches goal of meeting the needs of 30% of its membership...then it should just remain on the path that it is...if it is interested in reaching that other 70%...then perhaps it might consider asking those 7 in 10 what the church could do to fill their needs...how ever if their solutionis to contine offering the same old repackaged pray,read, ponder, repeat crap...I doubt there is any hope of reaching that 70%
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Drifting wrote: Why Me, an angel with a flaming sword told them to leave the Church. That's more believable, right?
Since it took him several years to reinstate polygamy, it just may have been a flaming sword.
28At that time, when David saw that the LORD had answered him on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite, he offered sacrifice there. 29For the tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses had made in the wilderness, and the altar of burnt offering were in the high place at Gibeon at that time. 30But David could not go before it to inquire of God, for he was terrified by the sword of the angel of the LORD.
16Then David lifted up his eyes and saw the angel of the LORD standing between earth and heaven, with his drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, covered with sackcloth, fell on their faces. 17David said to God, “Is it not I who commanded to count the people? Indeed, I am the one who has sinned and done very wickedly, but these sheep, what have they done? O LORD my God, please let Your hand be against me and my father’s household, but not against Your people that they should be plagued.”
<< 1 Chronicles 21 >>
For future reference, when debating with non-believers, quoting scripture is not an effective tactic.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:For future reference, when debating with non-believers, quoting scripture is not an effective tactic.
There is a subtle difference between David's experience and Joseph's. David was shown his unworthiness and was motivated to repent. Joseph was being forced to have sex with lots of women who were not named Emma. David's command was "Repent!" Joseph's was "Let's get it on!"
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado