Really this is consiced appropriate on a Sunday???? WTF

[_why me]

I think she had such a strong reaction because the presentation was so egregiously ignorant, patronizing, ignorant, presumptuous, ignorant, repellant and ignorant.

Or maybe she had such a reaction because she is a little off. How did the rest of the women react? We have no idea. We only have her word for what happened.

[_why me]

I'm trying to understand your POV. Keep talking. I of course see things from a man's perspective, and you see it from a woman's. Though it's possible that never the twain shall meet, I would very much like to understand your position as well as I possibly can. I'm having a hard time comprehending the rage though. Though there are undoubtedly many things I hope this bishop would promote among the brethren of the ward in terms of how to make their wives happier and more fulfilled, and hence more attracted and "in the mood" to have sex with them, I think he said some things that, while undoubtedly awkward for the women to hear, and in church no less, probably are good for them to hear. Could he refine that message? Of course.

Seth, you are absolutely right in your post to blixa. However, I don't think that many women would understand this. I knew a poor Mormon guy who had sex with his wife about 6 times in four years, if I believe his story. His wife did not want to have sex with him. What was he suppose to do? Eventually, he had an affair with an female friend. Could anyone blame him? I didn't.

His wife was insensitive to his needs. According to him, she didn't even want to touch him. But they remained married until the situation became unbearable. He was depressed and suicidal. Now he is doing fine and his wife has remarried. I am sure that the bishop has had quite a few guys in his ward come to him with this problem of the wife not wanting to have any form of sex. What should a bishop do?

[_3sheets2thewind]

Is that Bishop bcspace?

Philosophy of man mingled with scripture...check
Telling other they are not good enough...check
Avoiding the real issue for pet theories...check
Uses pulpit to essentially bully and guilt into compliance...check

[_Blixa]

I'm trying to understand your POV. Keep talking. I of course see things from a man's perspective, and you see it from a woman's. Though it's possible that never the twain shall meet, I would very much like to understand your position as well as I possibly can.

Thanks. I really appreciate the part I bolded. You know I respect you. And owe you for a massively important scholarly tip (when it finally gets published, look for your name in the acknowledgments).

I think I can explain the case more fully, but I also think we are working with different understandings of "a male's perspective" and "a woman's perspective" and maybe even "sexuality." Because of that, I need to think about the best way to open up a more productive discussion.

Honestly, I don't have the time right now. Or the rest of this weekend. And then a week of work starts. So, it may take a while, but let me think about it and I'll try to pick up the discussion at a later point.

Obviously, we agree on some things, but how we represent our disagreement with other things is what I think is really at the heart of your questions to me.

[_moksha]

Silver Lining Department

Perhaps since the Bishop broached this subject, further dialogue on this subject including honest input from women, might be possible in the future at this particular ward. It is great when members are able to awaken from slumber and add to conversation. Sunday seems a great day to examine human issues.

[_cafe crema]

Cate at FMH posted this disturbing recounting of her bishops lecture.
So Mormon women have to be lectured at church on a Sunday morning about satisfying their husbands needs??? I really can't wrap my head around this. No one I know would find this appropriate discussion for a Sunday service, seriously this discussed on Sunday at church would truly shock everyone I know. The very idea of this lecture on a Sunday is disturbing and that is without getting into the horror in the details of the bishops crap.

What would a priest advise women who do not want to have sex with their husbands? Just curious.

I have no idea how a priest would counsel an individual, man or woman, in this kind of situation my best guess is refer her or him to professional counseling. But I do know that no priest would take aside all the women in the parish on a Sunday morning and tell them they need to boink their husbands more.

Why do all the woman in this ward need to be told to boink their husbands? Really all the women need to hear this crap, every woman in the ward? Why do Mormon woman need this lecture and if they do why doesn't the church hire trained people instead of this dolt.
And how is this an appropriate topic for Sunday morning? Seriously I can't think of any woman I know that wouldn't be shocked and appalled to hear this lecture at church and after hearing it more than likely would promise themselves to never step into an LDS church again. It's creepy and disturbing.

[_madeleine]

It's creepy and disturbing.

Yes, it is.

[_palerobber]

the guy could have saved everyone a lot of time and trouble if he'd just put up a single slide explaining handjobs.

that aside, i have to confess i've never understood why it's such a huge deal for someone (female or male) to have sex with their spouse even when they're not that into it. people are saying "duty sex" like that's a terrible thing. but how is it any worse than "duty getting the kids ready for bed" or "duty picking up the dry cleaning"? it's just not that hard and doesn't take that long. what am i missing?

i do understand that many people (especially women) have special issues because they've been sexually abused or harassed in the past, and i totally respect those people's need to have greater freedom from imposition. so what i wrote above does not apply to them.

[_why me]

what am i missing?

You are missing the sad point that many women wish to complain and moan about what they hear in the LDS church or what they read about what other people have heard as in this case.

Without any clue or understanding of the male perspective when it comes to sex. Seth gave a good understanding of the male point of view. If the man does't get it at home, he will stray and get it somewhere else eventually. But women don't get it especially the ones that believe that the real enemy is the male.

[_why me]

It's creepy and disturbing.

Here is the problem: we have no confirmation of the story. We only have this woman's word for it. We only have her interpretation of the event. And her over the top reaction to it. That is all we have.

If I talk to a priest about how I am not getting it from my wife I would hope to get more feedback then go to a counselor. I would be hoping for something more from the priest. Also, we know that a sexual sin does not have the same weight in the catholic faith as it does in the Mormon faith. There are many catholics who are living with men and women and are not married. Also, many catholics have no problem with sex outside of marriage. It is a little different in the Mormon faith and consequences are too, especially if one is male.