Test Case For Christ's Return

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_moksha
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _moksha »

Nightlion wrote:let's say he just returns in a descending Holy City and parks. He does not go out and none are allowed in who cannot otherwise get in... At what point would our modern culture admit that this was Very God and change their ways?


We might admit God after we had launched a ballistic missle strike on this hovering Holy City.
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_Nightlion
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Nightlion »

Gadianton wrote:Spektical is dead on. In the highly imaginary world where the New Jeruselem comes out of the sky and parks and this event correlates with massive changes in geography, then atheists will be open to explanations they don't take seriously today. Though, that doesn't mean they'd attribute it to "God" if other simpler explanations are available.

Lamen and Lemuel of old didn't believe even when they saw angels, so don't expect God to send an angel since it won't work. If you're a con pretending to write a book of scripture like Joseph Smith or SR, then you can expect the book to contain justifications to avoid ever having to pony up evidence.

See there, Bud, the Book of Mormon is chuck full of precise and perfect evidences. So exquisite that they defy explanation other than that the text is of God. No other possibility exists for the events that are accounted of in the Book of Mormon.

You see, it is on this wise. Four hundred years of knowing for themselves what the Bible taught and more perfectly what Jesus commanded and what the record showed as to what IS the real gospel and what its evidences are there was still not a single solitary man standing upon the earth in the day of Joseph Smith who got it RIGHT! Because all they could do is guess at it and they of course, did not realize that Jesus was serious about what he was saying and that you actually MUST do according to that which is written to get it RIGHT. The Baptist, Methodist, Catholics and all the rest were selling snake oil instead.

Joseph Smith nailed the perfect and precise gospel of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon. You will say, no! People in his day understood the REAL gospel. Bull Pucky! It is ssooooooooo vague to the understanding of the natural man that even WITH the Book of Mormon THE damn Mormons refuse to see it and for ten generations have trampled it under foot the same as their Protestant forefathers did after the Bible was printed for all to read it for themselves.

Which do you suppose that the Maker of all men and the Very God of Heaven is interested in man discovering? Archeological evidence? Horses? Metals? DNA? Towns named Zarahemla or to work out their salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord. All the explanations will be covered with sublime satisfaction in it time. What is needful today is that somebody cares enough to see the gospel and power of Zion before it is everlastingly too late and the earth is wasted at his coming.

Trample again and again upon that which counts while you revile the lack of carnal evidences when the greater and everlasting evidence goes unnoticed. So God has hidden what would overrun the essence of the purpose of salvation and the entire cause that brought Jesus Christ into the world so one man here and there would be humble enough to enter in at the straight gate and get the door open to stand upon the rock.

What if all the world became Mormon because of proofs abounding. It would ruin the truth all the more and the fashion would cry down and persecute the real gospel against the weight of all evidences justifying the enormity of hypocrisy that the hypocrite nation would invest in justifying great big self. You think LDS GAs are an abomination? Imagine if all the world panted after the proofs of Mormonism discoveries of carnal evidences.

I think God wiser than all that. Nobody would be humble sufficiently after all the evidence you crave existed.

I have explained this in great detail already. You are dull of hearing it no doubt.
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_Nightlion
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Nightlion »

Spektical wrote:
Mooseman wrote:Atheist would be forced to come up with fantastic reasons that defy logic when confronted with the otherwise reality of an actual God visiting the earth. They are ignored and not gaining any access to study the ins and outs of the event. With no hands-on relevant data how are they going to adapt logically?


How do you know most atheists wouldn't simply look at the evidence and change their minds? This is some fantasy world you're conjuring up where atheists are the ones coming up with irrational explanations to attempt to refute the evidence staring them in the face. Again: that is what religionists do in this world. Right now, every day.

And what do you mean with no hands-on relevant data? In Nightlion's hypothetical, there appears to be plenty of hands-on relevant data.


I am not allowing that you get to SEE God. You could imagine freely. My experience with evidence of spiritual realities is that atheism is not a fact based rationale. It is a chosen political identity already able to deny abundant evidence to the contrary as all things denote that there is a God. The madness would only escalate to panic. IMHO I am not saying religionists would not panic as well trying to get their side some advantage as being in with God. Good luck.
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_Blixa
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Blixa »

I don't know Nightlion. My mind is in places now I never thought it would be, so who knows where I'll end up. I'm much more interested in reading about religion and various people's religious experiences than I've ever been, so all in all I think that's a good thing.

by the way, I don't think I "chose" my atheism. It's been my default position from the beginning.
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_Nightlion
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Nightlion »

just me wrote:by the way, sounds a lot like slavery. Why would I worship a slave-owner god?


I admit that the adolescent conclusion jumping of early LDS has set up a toxic premise of being TOO familiar with Almighty God. Slavery is not an acceptable term with God. He is actually NOT one of us. He is holding us in subjection regardless and that is very absolute. Such is what God is all about. Mormons tend to look upon God loosely like he is just another guy, one of us who got there first. This is as wrong as it could possibly be. LDS scripture will not support the notion. Joseph Smith did not believe any such thing. He was God's prophet who did in fact administer the STRONG DELUSION that they believe a lie which God promised in 2 Thessalonians 2 for those who did not love the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness, even THE GENTILE Mormons who trample the gospel daily.

They could have received all the power of Zion or the counterweight of modern inventions, the lying wonders of Satan. They chose the love of the things of this world having pleasure in unrighteousness. Thus they were given over to strong delusions that they believe a lie. Joseph therefore has his name for good and evil as predicted.
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_Nightlion
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Nightlion »

moksha wrote:
Nightlion wrote:let's say he just returns in a descending Holy City and parks. He does not go out and none are allowed in who cannot otherwise get in... At what point would our modern culture admit that this was Very God and change their ways?


We might admit God after we had launched a ballistic missle strike on this hovering Holy City.

Reminds me of my ARCHANGEL by Jimi Abelson cartoon:
Image
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
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_Spektical
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Spektical »

Nightlion wrote:
I am not allowing that you get to SEE God. You could imagine freely. My experience with evidence of spiritual realities is that atheism is not a fact based rationale. It is a chosen political identity already able to deny abundant evidence to the contrary as all things denote that there is a God. The madness would only escalate to panic. IMHO I am not saying religionists would not panic as well trying to get their side some advantage as being in with God. Good luck.


Okay, I just reread your hypothetical and realized god isn't visible in it. My bad. So basically this is a world where god actually starts doing stuff, but he doesn't physically or obviously manifest himself in any way. You're right: atheists/skeptics wouldn't immediately turn to a supernatural explanation, as you so badly want them to. As Richard Dawkins aptly states in the God Delusion, such reasoning is the work of a lazy mind. Once you conclude god must be doing something or other, it ends all scientific inquiry and our understanding of that something stagnates.

In your fantastic hypothetical, the skeptics would be puzzled, but they would remain intellectually honest and keep looking for more unambiguous evidence of causality. And your spiteful, petulant god would of course blame them for it. Your hypothetical is consistent with the common religious tendency to make everything god does invisible and unprovable. Yeah, we get it: you like to have faith without physical evidence. We don't.
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_Nightlion
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Nightlion »

Spektical wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
I am not allowing that you get to SEE God. You could imagine freely. My experience with evidence of spiritual realities is that atheism is not a fact based rationale. It is a chosen political identity already able to deny abundant evidence to the contrary as all things denote that there is a God. The madness would only escalate to panic. IMHO I am not saying religionists would not panic as well trying to get their side some advantage as being in with God. Good luck.


Okay, I just reread your hypothetical and realized god isn't visible in it. My bad. So basically this is a world where god actually starts doing stuff, but he doesn't physically or obviously manifest himself in any way. You're right: atheists/skeptics wouldn't immediately turn to a supernatural explanation, as you so badly want them to. As Richard Dawkins aptly states in the God Delusion, such reasoning is the work of a lazy mind. Once you conclude god must be doing something or other, it ends all scientific inquiry and our understanding of that something stagnates.

In your fantastic hypothetical, the skeptics would be puzzled, but they would remain intellectually honest and keep looking for more unambiguous evidence of causality. And your spiteful, petulant god would of course blame them for it. Your hypothetical is consistent with the common religious tendency to make everything god does invisible and unprovable. Yeah, we get it: you like to have faith without physical evidence. We don't.


The passion of the emphasis (mine) is rhetorical politics and not sound rationale. Atheist picked a side politically against God and want their side to win at all costs..... (to what's obvious) If a sound mind of the highest intellect was to honestly apprise all creation set before him intelligent and benevolent design would be the only consideration. That academia are on this mental holiday of blinder specialized introspection so as to be able to deny the overbearing weight of the whole of creation while they shut out all broad considerations to remain pure in their atheism and not defile their chosen politics is a circus and intellectual farce.

Man began scientific inquiry and wanted God out of the way as your Dawkins put it. Nothing lazy intellectually about admitting God is doing all things. I have had to stand against my entire generation for over forty years in the highest degree of diligence and mental exercise solving problems of immense import and profound just to keep my own head up against the tide of sloth minded religious and atheistic morons. This with the guiding hand of God all my days. I have produced an impressive body of work that shall see the light of day when the envy of men ceases to strive to militantly entangle my every step.
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_Spektical
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _Spektical »

Sure, Nightlion, whatever.

You have quite the ego and imagination, I'll give you that much.
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_GR33N
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Re: Test Case For Christ's Return

Post by _GR33N »

I think God wiser than all that. Nobody would be humble sufficiently after all the evidence you crave existed.


+1
Then saith He to Thomas... be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
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