Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

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_Kevin Graham
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Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _Kevin Graham »

How long before they drop the pedantic fear-mongering over hyperinflation?

The Federal Reserve announced on September 13 that it is taking new measures commonly referred to as quantitative easing to boost employment and stimulate the economy. Immediately following the announcement, Rush Limbaugh told his radio show listeners that this means the United States will eventually turn into Zimbabwe.

Limbaugh claimed that the Fed's actions mean "we're basically printing more money" and "printing money equals inflation, equals Zimbabwe -- third world." This is a common response from the right wing media whenever the Fed moves to boost the economy. But the idea that inflation in the United States will ever explode into unmanageable levels is farfetched.

To understand what Limbaugh is saying, think about what matters for your economic situation: Ultimately, what's important is not the amount printed on the pieces of paper in your pocket; it's what the money can buy. The idea that Limbaugh is trying to get across -- which is false -- is that by "printing money," the Federal Reserve is debasing the currency -- making each dollar worth less. But if the Fed, for example, doubled the amount of dollars in circulation in the world, all that would happen is that prices would in turn double. So instead of your morning coffee costing $2, it would cost $4, because each dollar would only have half the value it did before. That's what Limbaugh's getting at when he said "printing money equals inflation."

But he's wrong. The fact is that the Fed has already "printed" $2.3 trillion since 2008. (Actually, it doesn't physically print anything. Imagine selling some of your Facebook stock to the bank, and the bank pays you by dropping money straight into your account. That's what the Fed does -- it buy bonds from banks, and drops money in their accounts.) But it hasn't resulted in runaway inflation. This chart shows how fast prices have risen over the previous year going back to 1947, with a black line added at zero to make clear how historically low inflation currently is:

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As economist Mark Thoma wrote several weeks ago, "it appears the biggest worries about further easing -- inflation and market disruption - are unfounded."

But little things like history and evidence have no bearing on the right wing's thought leaders. Fox News contributor Sarah Palin has predicted that the previous rounds of bond buying would lead to inflation.

After the Fed's announcement, she took to Facebook to again denounce the Fed's actions:

As predicted, QE3 is upon us. Is it any wonder that the dollar is down against major currencies? This temporary, artificial economic "stimulus" bought at the expense of high inflation is no substitute for a stable currency and genuine long-term economic recovery. This is what happens when big government centralized planners try to "plan" our economy. President Obama is no doubt happy, though, that this latest sugar fix comes 53 days before the election.


As we've established, the substance of this critique is flawed. But what does Limbaugh mean when he says we'll turn into Zimbabwe?

Go back to your $2 cup of coffee. If the value of a dollar falls and your cup of coffee goes from $2 to $4, that's inflation. If the value of a dollar falls and your cup of coffee goes from $2 to $200,000, that's hyperinflation, and it's a debilitating economic condition that the African nation of Zimbabwe experienced in the mid-2000s.

According to The New York Times, Zimbabwe had an unemployment rate of around 80 percent and inflation, as of May 2006, was approaching 1000 percent. The Times explained:

[P]rinting too many worthless dollars is in part what got Zimbabwe into this mess to begin with. Zimbabwe fell into hyperinflation after the government began seizing commercial farms in about 2000. Foreign investors fled, manufacturing ground to a halt, goods and foreign currency needed to buy imports fell into short supply and prices shot up.


Annual inflation in the United States today is 1.7 percent.

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_Analytics
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _Analytics »

This whole conversation raises a question that shouldn't be taboo: is inflation always bad? Why? Before a round of hyper-inflation, a guy who earns $50,000 a year pays $2 for a cup of coffee. After, he makes $100,000 and pays $4 for a cup of coffee. Why is that awful?

Depending upon the circumstances, inflation can be a powerful motivator to spend money before it loses value. If that $1,000,000 you have in the bank will only be able to purchase $500,000 worth of goods and services in a year, that is a powerful motivator to do something with it now--before the money in your pocket loses value go ahead and expand your business, upgrade your equipment, spend it on an advertising campaign, put that addition on your lake house, buy a bigger yacht, or do whatever it is that you were planning on doing with it.

There is a ton of money out there right now, and the reason unemployment is high is because the people with the money aren't spending it. What's wrong with giving them some motivation?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_mledbetter
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _mledbetter »

[quote="Kevin Graham"][/quote]

I was wondering if you could provide a link to those charts. Every time I've seen these statistics, the government has left out food and energy inflation because the are considered "temporary" even those they have been rising over the past 24 years straight. This is a manipulation. Food and energy are the two most important factors when it comes to inflation, in my opinion, because they are huge costs to the consumer.

Anyway, I just wanted to check the data and see if they included food and energy inflation.
(nevermind, I just checked this. They removed food and energy because they are the most volatile, up and down. If you take them out, you have a more smooth trend but it stays pretty much the same.)

Also, regarding quantitative easing. They pretty much did the same thing in Yugoslavia. Things were great for a while, then the crap hit the fan. When it hits, it's sudden. And, since the government is using the money to always "jump start" the economy by buying unwanted corporate and bank assets, it tends to mask the greater lurking issue of dropping consumer confidence in the currency and the credibility of government bond promises. Most of the owners of the national debt are U.S. investors. Inflation diminishes government bond returns. You have to factor in the human side of the economy. The economy isn't just 2 dimensional. There is a human behavior side to it, too. There are already growing signs that the U.S. currency is becoming toxic in Asia. Asian banks swimming in U.S. currency are getting rid of it as fast as they can and having a difficult time doing so. When your currency is the world reserve currency, it takes time for that to eventually hit your shores, but eventually it will. I'm not saying that it's dooms day just around the corner, but surely you don't think we can continue along the path we are going forever, do you?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_mledbetter
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _mledbetter »

Analytics wrote:This whole conversation raises a question that shouldn't be taboo: is inflation always bad? Why? Before a round of hyper-inflation, a guy who earns $50,000 a year pays $2 for a cup of coffee. After, he makes $100,000 and pays $4 for a cup of coffee. Why is that awful?

Depending upon the circumstances, inflation can be a powerful motivator to spend money before it loses value. If that $1,000,000 you have in the bank will only be able to purchase $500,000 worth of goods and services in a year, that is a powerful motivator to do something with it now--before the money in your pocket loses value go ahead and expand your business, upgrade your equipment, spend it on an advertising campaign, put that addition on your lake house, buy a bigger yacht, or do whatever it is that you were planning on doing with it.

There is a ton of money out there right now, and the reason unemployment is high is because the people with the money aren't spending it. What's wrong with giving them some motivation?


Actually, it's that very type of behavior that leads to hyperinflation. When people think their money will be worth half tomorrow as it is today, they make a run on the banks and convert the worthless paper to long-term commodities like metals and land. Banks can't handle the run, so the government prints even more money to flush into the banks leading to even further devaluing. You don't want this behavior. There is a reason that Yugoslavia isn't around anymore.

Again, you guys have to factor in the human variable. The economy isn't a dumb beast that can always be controlled by government regulations. Sometimes, it's those very regulations that lead to unwanted behavior by the masses.

Also, you have to remember that a lot of companies out there who are so selfishly holding on to their money are companies that had "near-death" experiences with the market and housing crash. They are being very conservative with their money and keeping their overhead low, because nobody is having an easy time predicting market trends at the moment. In the current situation, it would be naïve to think they will just start spending money to hire folks or buy new goods and services. Most likely, they will just cut further overhead.

Also, quite frankly, we still don't know all of the new regulations that are coming out with the Affordable Care Act. You have to hire a team of lawyers if you are a mid-size business just to understand whether or not you want to keep your current health plans or just get rid of them altogether. That cost alone could put off employing more skilled labor for at the very least a year or so.
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_mledbetter
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _mledbetter »

This will put inflation into better perspective.
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl? ... year2=2008
Calculator linked to from the U.S. Department of labor.

If you made a salary of 60k in 2008 and you haven't had a raise in 4 years, your income has dropped by $4000. That's pretty steep inflation. It's not a problem if you can keep getting raises like I have been doing, but there are a lot of people out there who are seriously hurting right now.
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_mledbetter
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _mledbetter »

More evidence that the Fed is lying about the real inflation numbers:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42551209/Inflati ... er_Measure

Why would they lie?

Well, if they told the truth, they would have to raise interest rates, further hurting the economy.

They would also have to raise government entitlements, which they clearly cannot afford to do.
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_Bond James Bond
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _Bond James Bond »

If it's at all possible I think everyone who votes for Romney/Ryan this election cycle should get to "opt in" to his voucher health care program and out of Medicare. That'll help the economy amirite? :wink:
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Analytics
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _Analytics »

mledbetter wrote:Actually, it's that very type of behavior that leads to hyperinflation....

That is essentially my point. Supply and demand need to be in balance. Savings and borrowing need to be in balance. If too many people want to save and there aren't enough people who want to borrow that savings, the result is going to be a liquidity trap where interest-rates at zero still isn't enough to encourage people to save less and borrow more.

If the supply and demand for goods, services, and labor is such that there is a big demand to work now and spend later, then market-based equilibrium would call for a negative time-value of money--i.e. inflation.

What's worse, inflation or unemployement?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_mledbetter
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _mledbetter »

Analytics wrote:
mledbetter wrote:What's worse, inflation or unemployement?


You make an excellent point and I agree with you. I also understand your question and would agree that unemployment is worse. However, my overall question is, can we continue down this path? Sooner or later, people will lose all trust in government currency, nobody will buy U.S. debt, and there will be massive unemployment in both the private sector and the public sector. It CAN possibly get much worse than what we have now if nothing is done about it.

That being said, I'm not a doomsday naysayer. I believe that this can be turned around and hope that it will.
It's starts with our government being honest about:
*real unemployment numbers
*real inflation

Also, sooner or later the Fed will and should raise interest rates.

One last point:
Our government is going to have to raise taxes on everyone (I hate admitting this being a moderate, fiscally conservative sort of guy). Even the bottom 50% needs to share this burden. (According to IRS data for 2008, when accounting for Adjusted Gross Income, the bottom 50% only pay 4% of all income taxes)
http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats--- ... ares#_pagi
Our government is also going to have to cut spending in both the military (which they are about to do hopefully) AND in entitlements.
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_Bond James Bond
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Re: Droopy's False Prophets: Inflation that never was

Post by _Bond James Bond »

mledbetter wrote:Our government is going to have to raise taxes on everyone (I hate admitting this being a moderate, fiscally conservative sort of guy). Even the bottom 50% needs to share this burden. (According to IRS data for 2008, when accounting for Adjusted Gross Income, the bottom 50% only pay 4% of all income taxes)
http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats--- ... ares#_pagi
Our government is also going to have to cut spending in both the military (which they are about to do hopefully) AND in entitlements.


I agree with all especially my bold points.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
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