Was Jesus Married?

[Guest]

Deleted

[_Mooseman]

To be sexual you need to carry seeds (male) or the capacity to conceive seed (female) A body absent either capacity would be God. He is neither carnal nor sensual. Meaning no sex drive is in him. D&C 29. To conceive his seed what does Christ do?
He makes an atonement which has the power to conceive his sons and daughters by covenant (Word) alone. We take his name upon us and he puts his name upon us. This covenant is by the word of his power which are his commandments which is the ONLY way God does things. Again see Doctrine and Covenants 29.

It supposes me that since God is called Man of Holiness that male is the default form when a body does not come by way of the seeds. This has only occurred once. Mary was not the mother of Jesus as it was not her ovum which conceived the Son of Man. It was a clone that utilized the first ovulation of Eve when her seed was multiplied and replenished unto her after she partook of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. She needed a replenishment because she had previously exhausted all her powers of conception in her exaltation before she was placed into the Garden of Eden.

The seed of the woman once replenished was typified as being Christ who shall bruise the serpents head as the serpent shall bruise the heel of Christ. See Genesis and Moses. When you have seen Christ you have seen the Father. Of course since Jesus was a clone of the body of the Father which sits upon the Very Throne of Power.

by the way who would desire to be stuck upon even the Very Throne of Power with no vacation from it? God takes a break. And when his turn to be a Christ rolls around he will be able to forget all he knows for a season. What a relief! He gets to be a kid and have a mom. Great!

I hesitate to reply to "Nightlion" since he is quite obviously a few clowns short of a circus ... but I couldn't help but chuckle at his statement about the male carrying "seeds". Of course, that was a common belief prior to modern science. Men were going around planting their "seed" in the "fertile fields" of the females they bedded.

But man! Now Jesus is a clone? Wow!

The wheel's still spinning, but the hamster's dead........

For all the world I would love to believe the rumor that Ludd is the not so mighty anymore Will Schryver. You Mormons are not allowed to so much as acknowledge my existence. But since you are not whom we think you are perhaps an exception here.

Cool.

Rather than poke fun you got a single substantial counter argument or rationale that better explains a single thought of God and eternity? Well? Have ya? Punk!

1. Perhaps you can begin with explaining why then Jesus raised up a only a mortal body (scars intact) and not a perfected and glorified celestial body? If he was a clone perhaps a glorious resurrection it is not possible. If there is already one such up there in eternity it might not be kosher to duplicate. If only a temporary device, perhaps that gets disposed of by way of the sacrament counted for the deed (transubstantiation) when all things are made new.What do you think?
Whosoever does not eat his flesh and drink his blood hath no life in them.

Anything?

2. Okay, well then how about telling us about exaltation and how the LDS notion of a VERY God manages to continue physical seed and still retain his Godhood? As per D&C 132 says exaltation is the continuation of the seeds both in the world and out of the world.

Anything?

3. According to D&C 35 God's course is one eternal round. Thoughts?

Anything?

4. How about telling us how God the Eternal Father was the parent of our spirit bodies (as LDS stupidly suppose) when scripture plainly shows that Adam and Eve were.

Nothin?

5. The organization of intelligence.....pre spirit body birth or is it the same thing as being born in the pre-existence to heavenly parents. (Be they whom they may)

hmmm?

Anything?

[_Mooseman]

Wasn't it Brigham Young who taught that Jesus was a polygamist (married to Mary and Martha)?
I guess I should look that up, but I do remember reading that somewhere.

yeah, lots and lots of times:

Brigham Young

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them. The Lord gave a revelation through Joseph Smith, His servant; and we have believed and practiced it. Now, then, it is said that this must be done away before we are permitted to receive our place as a State in the Union... 'Do you think that we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without denying the principle of polygamy?' If we are not admitted until then, we shall never be admitted." -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 11, p. 269 [1] [2]

>“The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children; but at any rate they filled the Temple, and how many there were who could not get into the Temple I cannot say. This is the account given by Isaiah, whether he told the truth or not I leave every body to judge for himself.”


- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 309

>“... it will be seen that the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a polygamist... the Messiah chose... by marrying many honorable wives himself, to show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation in which His polygamist ancestors lived.


>“We have clearly show that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world. We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom Kings’ daughters and many honorable wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time...


>And then it would be so shocking to the modesty of the very pious ladies of Christendom to see Abraham and his wives, Jacob and his wives, Jesus and his honorable wives, all eating occasionally at the same table, and visiting one another, and conversing about their numerous children and their kingdoms.


>Oh, ye delicate ladies of Christendom, how can you endure such a scene as this?... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked, and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of Polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rules in that Kingdom.”


- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 172

Brigham Young was a colonizer. That's about the extent of his gift.

[_GR33N]

Of course, this part: "She will be able to be my disciple.” would be a problem.

By definition disciple is someone who follows the teachings of another. Can't see a problem there.

[_Nightlion]

Nightlion, some of the most interesting passages in the New Testament for me are in Luke and Mark. They are interesting because in light of later orthodoxy they are surprising.

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. Luke 18:19

and again in Mark

'And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone' Mark 10:18

The implications are quite astounding and I think emphasise the humanity of Jesus, so in that sense I do not have a problem with him being married if that is where the evidence leads.

No different than saying he is meek and lowly in heart. If he were to validate himself as good in his generation meekness and lowly of heart go out the window with his perfect example.

Matt. 11: 29
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


He also challenged to Jews to convince him of having sinned.


John 8: 46
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Yet he held out that he must be straitened by finishing the work his Father had given him to do.

Luke 12: 50
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Meaning I have to suppose that he would not collect unto himself any notion of being good until he finished his work. What would that have to do with him being carnal, sensual or devilish. We know he was none of that.

John 14: 30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

[_zeezrom]

Of course, this part: "She will be able to be my disciple.” would be a problem.

By definition disciple is someone who follows the teachings of another. Can't see a problem there.

Likely, Jesus was her disciple as well.

[_Mary]

Nightlion, forgive me if I am wrong, but what you appear to be arguing is that Jesus was not fully human. Isn't that Docetism, which yes does find itself wrapped into the early christian writings, but mostly in condemning it rather than approving of it.

I appreciate that there were steps to eradicate Jesus' humanity (and within Catholicism as I understand it to promote Mary's (the mother) perpetual virginity) but the tantalizing evidence from within the gospel narratives themselves hints at Jesus having an earthly family of brothers and sisters, indeed there is good evidence that Jesus passed over the 'leadership' of the movement to his brother James.

I find the evidence of the Talpiot Tomb quite compelling though I appreciate it is still a controversial area. Here Jesus, son of Joseph, is buried with Mary, and with Mariamne keh Mara, which Tabor interprets as Lordess Mary. (Mariamne being a name given to Mary Magdalene in early christian writings). Interestingly the tomb also holds a son of Jesus (Judah as I recall but don't quote me on that).

I appreciate that the fragment is comparatively late but taken with the Gospel of Philip with the account of Jesus kissing Mary often on the mouth, and the apostles being jealous of her, does indicate if nothing else that there was early controversy as to his marital status and to the position of Mary Magdalene herself (as apostle to the apostles).

It's a fascinating area.

[_kamenraider]

4. How about telling us how God the Eternal Father was the parent of our spirit bodies (as LDS stupidly suppose) when scripture plainly shows that Adam and Eve were.

How does scripture "plainly" show that Adam and Eve were the parents of our spirit bodies?

I believe they were, I'm just wondering what you have in mind.

[_zeezrom]

Anyway, the question really needs to be asked:

Since Jesus was perfect, how did he treat his wife?

[_zeezrom]

You know, of all the men I want to marry, Jesus would be the guy... assuming he was perfect. I mean, I *really* want to know what that would be like.