MormonThink events

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_why me
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _why me »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
If some guy came up to me at church and offered to help me resolve my issues about the Book of Abraham, I'd probably send him what I know. There's nothing wrong with that. So, Pat gets upset because he's learned something he didn't know, and David is being punished for daring to share what he knows with someone.

I sometimes think you guys have no idea how clueless and Orwellian you sound.


Read the blog again. Pat did not ask for his help. The blogger volunteered to 'help'. Think about it. The blogger was out of line and most likely the woman or Pat dropped his name to the bishop or stake president. And the woman is not asking for his help either.

Let me put it this way: I attend adoration with the nuns every monday at their convent for the last several years. If I were to pass out Mormon pamphlets, talk about the dark side of catholic history with the other people who are attending the adoration to lead them out of the faith or to question their faith, do you think that the sisters would just let me do it? I do think that I would not be welcomed to attend anymore. It is really that simple.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _why me »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
I've thought about it. Anglicans know where their church and scriptures came from. Most Mormons do not. When you're presented a slanted, false history all your life, you don't need to be an expert to figure things out.

People shouldn't have to study things that in depth, but they shouldn't have the truth hidden from them.


Most anglicans know nothing unless they are taught some things in public school. And most catholics do not know their history and nor do they care about their history. And so it goes. However, for the critics of the LDS church, all Mormons must be experts in their history and they should take a SAT about it. Lets get a life here.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

why me wrote:Read the blog again. Pat did not ask for his help. The blogger volunteered to 'help'. Think about it. The blogger was out of line and most likely the woman or Pat dropped his name to the bishop or stake president. And the woman is not asking for his help either.


My understanding is that Pat offered to help David resolve his issues, so David sent him some of his concerns, which not surprisingly freaked Pat out.

Let me put it this way: I attend adoration with the nuns every monday at their convent for the last several years. If I were to pass out Mormon pamphlets, talk about the dark side of catholic history with the other people who are attending the adoration to lead them out of the faith or to question their faith, do you think that the sisters would just let me do it? I do think that I would not be welcomed to attend anymore. It is really that simple.


Suppose one of the nuns approached you and said, "I hear you are having trouble becoming fully Catholic. What can I do to help?" You send Sister Mary Lisa some information that you find troubling about Catholicism. Sister Mary Lisa is thus exposed to information she had never seen before and now begins to question. That's what happened, not that he was passing out anti-Mormon stuff at church.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

why me wrote:Most anglicans know nothing unless they are taught some things in public school. And most catholics do not know their history and nor do they care about their history. And so it goes. However, for the critics of the LDS church, all Mormons must be experts in their history and they should take a SAT about it. Lets get a life here.


Most Catholics and Anglicans would probably want to know if their scriptures were obvious fakes or their founders were con-men, don't you think?
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_RayAgostini

Re: MormonThink events

Post by _RayAgostini »

Stormy Waters wrote:So if the church is open and honest about it's history and the difficult issues as you suggest, why is he being subjected to church discipline? What's his crime?


First of all, I don't believe excommunicating him is a good idea at all, because it's only going to bring more negative attention to the Church, as happened with the September Six. As for the problem with openness in regard to history, Nevo did a post on MDDB which reflects my sentiments. For those who can't read MDDB:

Does the Church actively "hide" its history? Not really. Very little is actually hidden from public view. But the correlated version of history that the Church teaches its members necessarily omits anything that might tend to undermine faith. As a result, most members know little or nothing about Joseph Smith's money-digging activities, his 1826 trial, his secret marriages to already-married women and teenage housemaids, the Kinderhook Plates, etc. This is understandable on the Church's part, perhaps even justified, but it does set people up for disillusionment.

I am heartened to see the Church moving toward greater openness and transparency. There will always be a number of members who will remain uninformed about and largely uninterested in LDS history, but fewer and fewer members will find themselves broadsided by disclosures of the sort found in Grant Palmer's An Insider's View of Mormon Origins or Fawn Brodie's No Man Knows My History.


I think an important issue here is - whether one receives information, or "learns the truth about the past" from Mormon, non-Mormon, or anti-Mormon sources, will they continue to believe, as in "TBM belief"? Frankly, I can't see the Church coming out and willingly exposing itself to criticism. That is not only a fact of human nature, but organisational nature. If you kept a private journal and wrote many personal things therein that could expose you to public ridicule, or to ridicule because you didn't explain every single motivation for your actions, would you be happy to see that serialised in The New York Times?

Also, what we are talking about here, too, is the "selection process". The Church does it, and sites like Mormon Think do it. It has been said that it's not necessarily a historian's writings, per se, which reveal his/her bias, but the material they select to weave their story, or his-story. Likewise, we reveal our own biases by what we choose to read, or not read. Though we hear many LDS saying they won't touch "anti-materials", there are many cases where exmos, having exited the Church, refuse to furthermore read too deeply (or at all) into "apologetic sources". Both feel threatened, one by the fear of losing faith, and the other by the fear that "it might be true after all", or just contempt that others cannot see what is "so obvious" to them, that "it's all a fraud".
_Dr. Shades
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Dear participants:

David was kind enough to inform me that a/the major story about him is now online. You may read it at the following link:

Mormons Want to Excommunicate Romney Critic

Enjoy!
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_palerobber
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _palerobber »

RayAgostini wrote:And while Mormon Stories comes closer to objectivity, Mormon Expression is not objective.


"neutral" doesn't mean exactly the same thing as "objective."

i assume he just means that MD, MS, and ME aren't anti-mormon in their mission.
_Drifting
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _Drifting »

Joe Geisner wrote:David's Stake President's letter is posted:

http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com ... etter.html


So the Stake President gets David's name wrong and forgets to put a meeting time on it. Then, instead of writing a new letter, scrawls the corrections on in pen.

Very professional... Not!
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_thews
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _thews »

DrW wrote:David,

The MormonThink website is a very well done and important resource for those seeking the truth about Mormonism.
in my opinion, it is by far the best resource available in terms of balance, clarity and accessibility.

My guess is that you will find that you have more support among members and concerned former members of the LDS Church than you might imagine.

You are doing the right thing - no doubt about it.

Thanks for posting and best of luck in your upcoming encounter.

This. Good luck in your plight.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths
_Drifting
_Emeritus
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Re: MormonThink events

Post by _Drifting »

I would call this man in as a witness and make him testify...

http://www.shastacollege.edu/assets/0/5 ... 37d27b.jpg
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
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