A tale of a church court.

[_Sethbag]

A couple of things stand out to me. First, this woman lives in fantasyland, but it's the Mormon fantasyland, ie: she took what they taught, plus what the scriptures say, and assumed they actually meant what they said, literally.

I thought it was funny how the ward clerk smirked when she said she'd received revelations. "As if!"

I thought it kinda funny that she asked the bishop if he'd prayed about the things she'd said in her testimony, to see if they were true, and he claimed he had no need to do it, because it didn't follow the (she didn't know what word had been used) that the church had set out. Perhaps she meant that what she said deviated from what the church had taught, therefor he knew it couldn't be true, and had no need of praying about it.

I think that's hilarious, because LDS missionaries insist that people pray to know the truth of what the missionaries are saying, even when their teachee/mark knows that what the missionaries are saying isn't true because it doesn't agree with their interpretation of the Bible, or what their current church teaches, or whatever. Apparently "I don't need to pray about it because I already know it's not true" isn't a valid answer, except when it's an LDS bishop saying it to one of his members.

[_Themis]

A couple of things stand out to me. First, this woman lives in fantasyland, but it's the Mormon fantasyland, ie: she took what they taught, plus what the scriptures say, and assumed they actually meant what they said, literally.

I thought it was funny how the ward clerk smirked when she said she'd received revelations. "As if!"

I thought it kinda funny that she asked the bishop if he'd prayed about the things she'd said in her testimony, to see if they were true, and he claimed he had no need to do it, because it didn't follow the (she didn't know what word had been used) that the church had set out. Perhaps she meant that what she said deviated from what the church had taught, therefor he knew it couldn't be true, and had no need of praying about it.

I think that's hilarious, because LDS missionaries insist that people pray to know the truth of what the missionaries are saying, even when their teachee/mark knows that what the missionaries are saying isn't true because it doesn't agree with their interpretation of the Bible, or what their current church teaches, or whatever. Apparently "I don't need to pray about it because I already know it's not true" isn't a valid answer, except when it's an LDS bishop saying it to one of his members.

I think a lot can depend on who your bishop is, and how open you might be in promoting certain understandings you think you have obtained from the spirit. I know a few up in the celestial forum that could potentially get into trouble with some of their ideas if they were to vocal about them and had a certain type of bishop. I remember as a TBM most bishops and members would just tend to tolerate some of our unique members.

[_RayAgostini]

A couple of things stand out to me. First, this woman lives in fantasyland, but it's the Mormon fantasyland, ie: she took what they taught, plus what the scriptures say, and assumed they actually meant what they said, literally.

I thought it was funny how the ward clerk smirked when she said she'd received revelations. "As if!

The really weird thing is that you and Mormons (well, some, who include leaders) totally agree on this.

You should seriously consider going back to church, Seth. You've got that "policeman touch". lol. Policing what's possible, or not possible. Maybe that's why you are the way you are? Because you were taught to be a Mormon policeman called and heralded to be the discerner of "truth and error"? It shows. So let me guess, you're suffering from some kind of "Mormon hangover", which denies the real possibility of modern revelation and miracles "outside authorised circles"? I know you're contemptuous of both, but I'd suggest that this contempt took seed in your Mormon upbringing. "Miracles", are only "allowed" by "those so authorised". The ironic fact about Mormonism is that it, maybe unwittingly, "trains" its members in selective skepticism. No authority? Be skeptical. No "empirical backing"? Be skeptical.

You've given me some real food for thought here.

[_RayAgostini]

Most Mormons who leave the Church tend to gravitate towards atheism, and that may be because Mormonism itself created this inescapable dichotomy. If Mormonism isn't true - then both God and religion are dead in the water.

A more false dichotomy, I can scarcely think of.

[_Kishkumen]

Most Mormons who leave the Church tend to gravitate towards atheism, and that may be because Mormonism itself created this inescapable dichotomy. If Mormonism isn't true - then both God and religion are dead in the water.

A more false dichotomy, I can scarcely think of.

I agree with Ray on this one. Mormonism provides a person with a historical narrative that is myopic on the issue of religion. The variety of the discussion on deities, and its sophistication already centuries ago, make the usual post-Mormon thought process on the issue seem childish and ignorant in the extreme.

This is not always true, of course, but I bet it remains true in the vast majority of cases.

[_selek]

Most Mormons who leave the Church tend to gravitate towards atheism, and that may be because Mormonism itself created this inescapable dichotomy. If Mormonism isn't true - then both God and religion are dead in the water.

A more false dichotomy, I can scarcely think of.

I can see where you are coming from, and believe Mormonism creates the dichotomy you reference, but I don't agree entirely.

I consider myself an agnostic. After leaving Mormonism, I started applying the same critical thinking to other religions and found all of them to have holes in their truth claims, or had beliefs that I simply couldn't accept as reasonable or true.

There is just as much evidence to believe Ancient Alien Theory as to believe any other explanation of religious origins.

[_Gadianton]

Sethbag, yeah, I agree with you that there are situations that show the stupidity of the brethren and the Church in ways nothing else can. In addition to things you mentioned, what made me bust a gut is how out of place the brethren with their ledgers and fine print are in a religion that burst forth in the latter-days claiming the heavens open, and showering revelation and gifts of the spirit on the Saints. It's like, you just want people to understand -- even if they ultimately vote for Romney anyway -- how the LDS male peers to Romney have this fantastic power to do things like, surgically remove the mysterious gift of the Holy Ghost from someones life by a formal proceeding for exactly the space of twelve months wherein, if the legalese accompanying the removal is complied with by the subject, the Holy Ghost can be re-infused into the persons body by the same council at the end of the separation term. It's crazy crazy. It makes the brethren look like the complete fools they are, and it makes Romney also look like a fool. But the reasons why these people are successful in life is that they are hypocrites and neither understand nor live their religion, their religion and its rites have become little more than initiation ritual for an overgrown Sorority club.

The one thing that's kind of bad though, is that while the Church screws over members with personality/mental health issues in its ignorance (it's vast, vast ignorance), when apostates are too supportive of people with issues "living their religion" as either a way to mock the church or to show how oppressive the Church is might not be helping the person in the long run. Encouragement is good, but possibly not good so superficially, "you go ahead brother (or sister) and walk with God however you want and teach the Church a lesson." The person may very well need professional help that would ultimately constrain how the person views them-self as walking with God.

[_MCB]

Gad:

A lot of the ignoring mental health issues among people leaving LDS influence (lets make the umbrella larger, please) has to do with even more LDS cultural influence.

My spiritual advisors, for example, are encouraging me to address my son's problems, my hearing loss issues (I OD'd yesterday on Gregorian Chant , but otherwise probably wouldn't have coped as well with the PTSD of seeing Hater's delusional post), and get into divorce ministry. It is not good to obsess on bitterness against the LDS and ignore other things. Balance is the issue, and my work gets better as I get less bitter.

[_Themis]

I can see where you are coming from, and believe Mormonism creates the dichotomy you reference, but I don't agree entirely.

I consider myself an agnostic. After leaving Mormonism, I started applying the same critical thinking to other religions and found all of them to have holes in their truth claims, or had beliefs that I simply couldn't accept as reasonable or true.

There is just as much evidence to believe Ancient Alien Theory as to believe any other explanation of religious origins.

If I am going to evaluate the evidence against the LDS church with as open mind as possible, how much more so will I do the same with other religions I have less affinity towards.

[_keithb]

I am disfellowshipped for 12 months ... I no longer have the Holy Ghost and am not entitled to its inspiration, I am only allowed to pay tithing and attend the meetings.

You gotta love Mormon priorities in situations such as this ...