Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

ldsfaqs wrote:First lie.... Joseph Smith and others practiced "Polygamy" in Illinois. He and others did not. They practiced the "Sealing Ordinance". When Joseph said he/they weren't practicing Polygamy, they weren't. Actual polygamy didn't start until Utah.


I heard Tiger Woods "sealed" a lot of women. :lol:

Holy crap, you're delusional.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Uther
_Emeritus
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Uther »

ldsfaqs wrote:Claim:
First lie.... Joseph Smith and others practiced "Polygamy" in Illinois. He and others did not. They practiced the "Sealing Ordinance". When Joseph said he/they weren't practicing Polygamy, they weren't. Actual polygamy didn't start until Utah.

Ehh..:
There WAS a "transition" period in Nauvoo when there were polygamous marriages occurring slightly before leaving Nauvoo.
So yes, there was Polygamy in Nauvoo, just not officially until Utah.
My main point was simply that when Joseph said what he said, the Church and he wasn't practicing it.


@LDSFAQ

Exactly what was it that brother Joseph practised in the barn with Fanny?
Can sealings occur in barns as well as in temples?

To me you appear to be an antimormon troll like selek or whyme. Trying to give the LDS church a bad name online.
If you happen to be authentic I suggest you may want to quit breaking the word of wisdom before you write something.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Chap »

3sheets2thewind wrote:Ldsfaqs, you need to read a thread on mddb started by bcspace, in said thread bcspace arsenal was handed.to him after he rebelion was ok.


Secondly one or two of josephs wives claimed the marriage was sexual.


And in the Temple Lot Case the Salt Lake City version of the Mormon church went to considerable lengths to collect and present affidavits from plural wives of Joseph Smith to the effect that were indeed in a relation with him involving sexual intercourse.

"Because of claims by Reorganized Latter-day Saints that Joseph was not really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Joseph's wives) affirmed repeatedly that Joseph had physical sexual relations with his plural wives-despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American religion which otherwise would have prevented mention of sexual relations in marriage."

- Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105; Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 156.)

- In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. (Temple Lot Case, 427)

- Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)

In total, 13 faithful latter-day saint women who were married to Joseph Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _just me »

ldsfaqs wrote:
just me wrote:So, the men who fathered children with their polygamous wives in Nauvoo were actually just adulterers?


There WAS a "transition" period in Nauvoo when there were polygamous marriages occurring slightly before leaving Nauvoo.

So yes, there was Polygamy in Nauvoo, just not officially until Utah.

My main point was simply that when Joseph said what he said, the Church and he wasn't practicing it.


This is a contradiction. Sorry. Everyone believes that a select group in the church and Joseph were practicing it...except for a very small faction from the Community of Christ. Joseph lied. He was a liar, liar and his pants were ablaze!


You need to pay attention to what I actually wrote. The anti's claim Mormons believe and taught that Polygamy was "not illegal". It was.

I was stating that there was a "belief" by some in the Church that it was not illegal, but it was.
In other words, the anti's created a strawman of "Mormons believing the practice was "legal", so we must now ATTACK that belief.


No. That is not what the critics mean. They are criticizing the church for participating and promoting an illegal activity.


It's not "my God"..... If a law is unjust, immoral, unfair, then in certain cases absolutely.

The "spirit" of the law especially in relation to Eternal Law is what we are to first follow, and then the letter of the law according to it's conformity to the spirit of the law.

I'm a free thinker..... I don't follow rules/laws simply because they exist. I follow what is right period, end of story. So you're darn right it's okay to break the law as is necessary.

If the law told me to murder I'm not going to do it..... Are you? Thus why are you condemning me? Why are you misrepresenting thus likewise Mormonism, as if we are zombies and are ONLY TO FOLLOW THE ARTICLE OF FAITH, even though it's NOT EVEN actual revelation???

A summary of our beliefs written as a letter to a paper or whatever and simply included in our scriptures is not "doctrine", nor is it "infallible" and addresses all nuances.

Anti-mormon "one track minds" is why you people have problems in falsely judging Mormonism and it's members. You don't know how to think in multi-faceted ways to see and understand other important details.


Huh. So intellectual property rights are unjust laws? Yeah, those people who come up with things sure don't deserve to get paid for their work, creativity and inventions. :rolleyes:

The Doctrine & Covenants claims that the law would not need to be broken in order to keep the law of god, by the way.

Also, half this portion of your comments make it sound like you aren't very familiar with Mormonism. I am a Mormon and I sure think you are full of it. The Articles of Faith are doctrine. They appear in the canon and they have been accepted by the membership. Oh, and they say we believe in being subject to the leaders of our countries, etc.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_LDSToronto
_Emeritus
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _LDSToronto »

ldsfaqs wrote:
just me wrote:So, the men who fathered children with their polygamous wives in Nauvoo were actually just adulterers?


There WAS a "transition" period in Nauvoo when there were polygamous marriages occurring slightly before leaving Nauvoo.

So yes, there was Polygamy in Nauvoo, just not officially until Utah.


What is the difference between unofficial polygamy and official polygamy?

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

LDSToronto wrote:What is the difference between unofficial polygamy and official polygamy?

H.


It's OK if you lie about practicing unofficial polygamy, but not about official polygamy. Duh, everyone knows that. :lol:
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _just me »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:What is the difference between unofficial polygamy and official polygamy?

H.


It's OK if you lie about practicing unofficial polygamy, but not about official polygamy. Duh, everyone knows that. :lol:


:lol: That is logical! :lol:
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

just me wrote: :lol: That is logical! :lol:


What a way to start a week: ldsfaqs making up BS about polygamy and why me getting off by talking about wanking. bleh
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _Themis »

just me wrote: and his pants were ablaze!


Are you sure that was not from close proximity to the angels sword.
42
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Twede Calls out Scott Gordon

Post by _just me »

Themis wrote:
just me wrote: and his pants were ablaze!


Are you sure that was not from close proximity to the angels sword.


I thought it was from the speed and frequency at which he dropped them... :neutral:
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Post Reply