Article of Faith #12

[_subgenius]

I consider the following statements, with regards to the American Constitution, to be consistent with AoF#12 "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

Was that the time would come when the Constitution and the country Would be in danger of an overthrow; and . . . "if the Constitution be Saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church." (Prophecy of Joseph Smith, (ACCORDING to Orson Hyde)Source: Journal of Discourses, Vol.6, p. 152, January 3, 1850)

Even this nation will be on the verge of crumbling to pieces and Tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of Ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean And they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of Destruction. (Source: Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Historical Archives, Box 1, March 10, 1844; D. Michael Stewart, Ensign, Vol. 6, No. 6, June 1976, PP. 64-65 Prophecy of Joseph Smith (March 10, 1844)

Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world in Which this Church should be more united than in upholding and Defending the Constitution of the United States. If members of the Melchizedek Priesthood allow the U.S. Constitution to be destroyed, They not only forfeit their rights to the Priesthood, but to a place in this highest degree of glory as well. (David O. McKay, The Instructor, Feb. 1956, p.34)

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who Will step forward to help save the Constitution, and not the church. Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step Forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of Us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The Longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more The persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate And world-wide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle? (Ezra Taft Benson in General Conference April 1965CR-4/65, Era, p. 539)

"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No. It will be held inviolate by this people; and as Joseph Smith said "the time will come when the destiny of this nation will hang upon a single thread, and at this critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction." It will be so. I do not know when that day will come or how it will come to pass. I feel sure that when it does come to pass, among those who will step forward from among this people will be men who hold the Holy Priesthood and who carry as credentials a bachelor or doctor of law degree. And women also, of honor. And there will be Judges as well. Others from the world outside the Church will come, as Colonel Thomas Kane did, and bring with them their knowledge of the law to protect this people. We may one day stand alone, but we will not change Or lower our standards, or change our course." (Boyd K. Packer in 2004: Source: "On the Shoulders of Giants", Brigham Young University J. Reuben Clark Law Society Devotional, Saturday, 2-28-04, 6:00 p.m)

(Latter-day Saints) "devoutly believe that if [the Constitution] should be in danger of being over thrown, their lives, if need be, are to be offered in defense of It's principles." (Harold B. Lee, "True Patriotism-An Expression of Faith", April 13, 1941)

We were told by the prophet Joseph Smith, that the United States Government and people would undermine one principle of the Constitution after another, until its whole fabric would be torn away, And that it would become the duty of the Latter-day Saints and those In sympathy with them to rescue it from destruction, and to maintain And sustain the principles of human freedom for which our fathers Fought and bled. We look for these things to come in quick succession. (Statement of Erastus Snow, 1885. Source: Journal of Discourses, vol. 26, p. 226, May 31, 1885)

Ezra Taft Benson - Should we counsel people, "Just live your religion. There's no need to get involved in the fight for freedom"? No, we should not, because our stand for freedom is a most basic part of our religion; this stand helped get us to this earth, and our reaction to freedom in this life will have eternal consequences. Man has many duties, but he has no excuse that can compensate for his loss of liberty".

(emphasis above mine)
and i believe the 1956 quote from McKay (bold type) requires a certain level of commitment from members such as Drifting

discussion?

[_Drifting]

Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world in Which this Church should be more united than in upholding and Defending the Constitution of the United States. If members of the Melchizedek Priesthood allow the U.S. Constitution to be destroyed, They not only forfeit their rights to the Priesthood, but to a place in this highest degree of glory as well. (David O. McKay, The Instructor, Feb. 1956, p.34)

(emphasis above mine)
and i believe the 1956 quote from McKay (bold type) requires a certain level of commitment from members such as Drifting

discussion?

Why should people outside of the United States show commitment to upholding and defending its constitution?

[_SteelHead]

Salient point, as now the majority of the church's membership is outside of the US.

[_subgenius]

Salient point, as now the majority of the church's membership is outside of the US.

Not the General Authority
Do you have any support for an argument whereas the majority of membership is the priority for this cause?
Surely Drifting could note where the "majority" of the church's revenue occurs, think that may be a consideration?

[_subgenius]

Why should people outside of the United States show commitment to upholding and defending its constitution?

Because the events of 1776 assured us all that God has no real interest in saving the "Queen" and appreciates true democracy.
So, should my nation need your service to defend the Constitution, i expect, as a member, you will follow the prophet. (though there is wiggle room for non-members too!)

[_SteelHead]

Non sequiter. Why would the members outside of the US even care about the US constitution? Especially in light of the recent teachings of Zion being gathered where ever there is a stake.

[_bcuzbcuz]

Why should people outside of the United States show commitment to upholding and defending its constitution?

Because the events of 1776 assured us all that God has no real interest in saving the "Queen" and appreciates true democracy.
So, should my nation need your service to defend the Constitution, i expect, as a member, you will follow the prophet. (though there is wiggle room for non-members too!)

Now you are truly pissing in the wind. I doubt you have any idea which thread the constitution will hang by.

Until you get that sorted out, I, for one, am content to sit on the sidelines and let Mormons, and non-Mormons alike, squabble over the crumbling American Empire.

[_Molok]

Because the events of 1776 assured us all that God has no real interest in saving the "Queen" and appreciates true democracy.

Haha, have you ever taken a history class outside of High School? Jesus.

[_SteelHead]

Worse, he doesn't understand the difference between a true democracy and a representative federal republic. The US is not a true democracy.

[_subgenius]

Non sequiter. Why would the members outside of the US even care about the US constitution? Especially in light of the recent teachings of Zion being gathered where ever there is a stake.

Ezra Taft Benson - Should we counsel people, "Just live your religion. There's no need to get involved in the fight for freedom"? No, we should not, because our stand for freedom is a most basic part of our religion; this stand helped get us to this earth, and our reaction to freedom in this life will have eternal consequences. Man has many duties, but he has no excuse that can compensate for his loss of liberty".