Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

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_Bob Loblaw
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

zeezrom wrote:I've been told that the Church is improving and stands today in a more inspired, benevolent light than before. This is certainly a faith promoting view.


Funny how benighted and uninspired the early prophets were.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_KevinSim
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _KevinSim »

mms wrote:Does he not understand that the LDS Church's racism is different because it claims direct revelation from God to its prophets and that it is therefore stuck with the idea that God told it to be racist?

Mms, do you think there's nothing in what Biblical Christians consider direct revelation that can be considered racist?

Many people have criticized the LDS Church for banning blacks from its priesthood prior to 1978. You don't hear very many people criticizing the racism against the Amalekite race embodied in God's instructions to Samuel who passed them on to Saul, as documented by 1 Samuel 15. In particular, you don't hear any examples of descendants of the Amalekites who have complained about that racism. I wonder why? Oh, that's right, that's because there aren't any descendants of those Amalekites. Some guy named Saul wiped them out, as he was directed to do by God and Samuel.
KevinSim

Reverence the eternal.
_KevinSim
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _KevinSim »

sock puppet wrote:And how many other organizations, those of men, were as late as 1977 and the early months of 1978 yet excluding people from other positions or privileges on the basis of race? LDS, listen up--you claim superiority because you claim Jesus is at your helm. You disserve yourselves and your organization when you simply point to what others were doing contemporaneous to what the LDS Church was doing. You are thereby de-legitimizing the claims of continuing revelation or that Jesus is at the helm of your organization.

I guess the relevant question, then, is, would Jesus be at the helm of an organization that institutionalized racism for a period of time?
KevinSim

Reverence the eternal.
_mms
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _mms »

so, kevin, you are saying that LDS racism was, in fact, directed by god, right? why can't millet just say that and let the chips fall where they may? he can just reference the Bible. that should work out great.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Many people have criticized the LDS Church for banning blacks from its priesthood prior to 1978.


But the racism in Mormon history is hardly limited to just that. There is also the doctrine that they were disobedient in the preexistence, and that their lowly state is a punishment for previous offenses. There are also the comments from the second Prophet of the Church stating quite emphatically that the negro race is disgusting to look at, and that mixing with their gene pool warranted death on the spot. And then you have statements during the Civil Rights era, by LDS leaders who opposed the movement, referring to Negros as "darkies," etc. Oh, and how can we forget Spencer Kimball's teaching that people become lighter in skin tone after repenting and being more involved with Church. And empirical claim, supposedly by revelation of God, that has been disproved.

You don't hear very many people criticizing the racism against the Amalekite race embodied in God's instructions to Samuel who passed them on to Saul, as documented by 1 Samuel 15.


What makes you think the Amalekites, assuming they existed, represented an entirely different race to begin with? And who would they make these complaints to, unless there were some Churches out there who interpreted this scripture as you have? You're doing the same damn thing Mormons do when they revert back to the Old Testament to justify whacked out beliefs, such as Brigham Young's teaching that he'd kill an adulterous wife with a javelin based on some obscure Old Testament reference.
_why me
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _why me »

Yes, it is very sad that Mormons are not perfect. It would be a much better world if they were. Sad that they are imperfect like everyone else. Well, what to do? We can only hope that now they will be perfect and learn from their mistakes. I am so disappointed in their imperfection. And Mormon leaders should be perfect like Christ and commit no sin. That is what I expect of them. Spotless...without blemish walking on water...just like Christ did.

Oh, well...what to do? What to do? :sad:
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_why me
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _why me »

mms wrote:so, kevin, you are saying that LDS racism was, in fact, directed by god, right? why can't millet just say that and let the chips fall where they may? he can just reference the Bible. that should work out great.


It seems that god was racist in the Bible. He chose one group of people as his chosen people and those around the chosen people if they moaned about it were dealt with rather harshly. The red sea took some nice people and drowned them for daring to attack the chosen people.

Oh my oh my, I do wish that the Mormons were always perfect. I am so disappointed in their imperfections. How can Mormons also be imperfect? I am so disappointed in Mormon imperfections. They should be perfect like Christ. But no...they dare to be human. Oh my oh my....what to do? what to do? :sad:
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Yong Xi
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _Yong Xi »

why me wrote:It seems that god was racist in the Bible. He chose one group of people as his chosen people and those around the chosen people if they moaned about it were dealt with rather harshly. The red sea took some nice people and drowned them for daring to attack the chosen people.

Oh my oh my, I do wish that the Mormons were always perfect. I am so disappointed in their imperfections. How can Mormons also be imperfect? I am so disappointed in Mormon imperfections. They should be perfect like Christ. But no...they dare to be human. Oh my oh my....what to do? what to do? :sad:


Exactly. I have never understood why everybody gets so pissed off at dictators and tyrants for wiping out people the way God did. If anything, they should be held in esteem for acting God-like.
_mms
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _mms »

why me wrote:
mms wrote:so, kevin, you are saying that LDS racism was, in fact, directed by god, right? why can't millet just say that and let the chips fall where they may? he can just reference the Bible. that should work out great.


It seems that god was racist in the Bible. He chose one group of people as his chosen people and those around the chosen people if they moaned about it were dealt with rather harshly. The red sea took some nice people and drowned them for daring to attack the chosen people.

Oh my oh my, I do wish that the Mormons were always perfect. I am so disappointed in their imperfections. How can Mormons also be imperfect? I am so disappointed in Mormon imperfections. They should be perfect like Christ. But no...they dare to be human. Oh my oh my....what to do? what to do? :sad:


So which is it, whyme? A sin? A mistake? Or a God-directed racism? You cannot seem to make up your mind. Do you not see the problem with your equivocating? You simply are not sure because you have absolutely no idea what is revealed from God and what is not. Yet, you pretend you do. That is, until the Church tells you it's not sure and then you are not sure anymore, right? Suddenly your "knowledge" from the Holy Ghost disappears--like it never existed. Funny how that works. "Forget everything we ever said.... [and forget everything the Holy Ghost confirmed to you when we said it--it was not the HG, it was man and although we told you the prophets would never lead you astray, maybe we did, and maybe we didn't, we don't know...]"
_lulu
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Re: Robert Millet in the Wash Post This Morning

Post by _lulu »

why me wrote:It seems that god was racist in the Bible.


An excellent reason for non-racists not to believe in God.

Next question.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
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