DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

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_Bob Loblaw
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Pahoran wrote:So after actually having something to say (for once) you now return to your usual pattern of drive-by insults.

Got it.

Regards,
Pahoran


Still not defending your decision to call someone a klansman and Nazi for making a silly joke about Mormon Scholars Testify?
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_SteelHead
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _SteelHead »

He compared me to a SS brownshirt lopping the earlobes off a a Jew for disagreeing with him.

Nothing but class............................
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Pahoran
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Pahoran »

SteelHead wrote:He compared me to a SS brownshirt lopping the earlobes off a a Jew for disagreeing with him.

You keep repeating this lie.

I compared a sneering Mormon-baiter to an SA (not SS) brownshirt Jew-baiter. The Mormon-baiter (you) was mocking matters that are sacred to the Latter-day Saints; the Jew-bater was lopping the earlocks (that's hair, Blockhead) from an Orthodox Jew because that's sacred to them.

The parallel was apt.

SteelHead wrote:Nothing but class............................

It's better than a lot of what gets seen around here, from the "dominant" school of thought.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Pahoran
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Pahoran »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
Pahoran wrote:So after actually having something to say (for once) you now return to your usual pattern of drive-by insults.

Got it.

Regards,
Pahoran


Still not defending your decision to call someone a klansman and Nazi for making a silly joke about Mormon Scholars Testify?

Still not defending your claim that the fellow at the bottom of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26078

Is so much kinder and gentler than I am?

As you know, the spiteful little "jokes" about MST -- comparable to jokes about why Jews have big noses -- relied upon false negative stereotypes of Mormons at large. Somehow, being the target of those kinds of stereotypes, I tend to be a little less relaxed about them than those who, like you, have no empathy at all when someone else's ox is being gored.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Pahoran wrote:Still not defending your claim that the fellow at the bottom of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26078

Is so much kinder and gentler than I am?


As you are aware, I had not seen what you described, and no, I don't think that's any kinder or gentler than you are, though that's not saying much.

As you know, the spiteful little "jokes" about MST -- comparable to jokes about why Jews have big noses -- relied upon false negative stereotypes of Mormons at large. Somehow, being the target of those kinds of stereotypes, I tend to be a little less relaxed about them than those who, like you, have no empathy at all when someone else's ox is being gored.


The jokes were about a specific group of "scholars," not Mormons at large, and I am sure you know that. There were no stereotypes, nothing comparable to a racist statement about Jews' noses, so your disgusting outburst was completely unjustified--as you well know. I have never known my friend to make any statements--negative or otherwise--about Mormons at large. I don't do that either. Mormons are a diverse group, and thank God most Mormons I know don't behave like you do--but there are bad eggs in every group. I do recognize that you are so hell-bent on finding reasons to hate people that your judgment may be a bit impaired.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_SteelHead
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _SteelHead »

Pahoran wrote:
SteelHead wrote:He compared me to a SS brownshirt lopping the earlobes off a a Jew for disagreeing with him.

You keep repeating this lie.

I compared a sneering Mormon-baiter to an SA (not SS) brownshirt Jew-baiter. The Mormon-baiter (you) was mocking matters that are sacred to the Latter-day Saints; the Jew-bater was lopping the earlocks (that's hair, Blockhead) from an Orthodox Jew because that's sacred to them.

The parallel was apt.

SteelHead wrote:Nothing but class............................

It's better than a lot of what gets seen around here, from the "dominant" school of thought.

Regards,
Pahoran


So my Autocorrect changes earlocks to earlobes.... Woops, but please show where I mocked anything in the temple.

Oh I didn't. You sir are the liar.

I did mention that something was part of the temple ceremony to show evidence that it was doctrinal, in response to your call for proof of it being so. Apparently to be labeled a baiter by you, one only needs to respond to your request for topics and supporting material.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Tom
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Tom »

Dr. Peterson wrote:Sometime in the Fall of 1974, I read an article in the Georgetown University newspaper about the open house for the newly built Washington D.C. Temple. I particularly remember its mockery of the temple’s new president, a retired Singer Corporation executive whose hand the author had shaken during a press reception. It was a hand, the article sneered, that had undoubtedly demonstrated and sold many sewing machines in its time.

Tom wrote:I recall that Dr. Peterson highlighted the same article in an essay published in FARMS Review 12/2 (a revised version of a 1999 FAIR presentation posted here):

"[b]ack when the Washington D.C. Temple was dedicated, the student newspaper at nearby Georgetown University published a lengthy article in which some of its editors responded to their tour of the building during its open house. Their report was not favorable. At one point, they met the president of the new temple, a retired executive (as I recall) from the Singer Sewing Machine Company. Shaking his hand, the writer observed with unconcealed contempt, one could not overlook the fact that it was a hand that must have sold many sewing machines in its day."

The article I assume Dr. Peterson is referring to can be accessed here (pages 18-19 of the PDF). The writer notes that "the temple president describes the church's missionary program in terms of his experience as the manager of a business machine sales company: You don't criticize other religions, but sell your own product on its own merits....We are ushered into the temple offices, where the temple president greets us with a smile that must have sold thousands of business machines." The temple president had worked for Friden/Singer.

It's now been more than 44 years since the publication of the article "God's marble hotel-motel" in the Georgetown student publication titled The Hoya Review (linked above). I must report that the indispensable Dr. Peterson draws attention to it once more in a recycled blog post. (He discussed it in the same terms four years ago here.) With Dr. Peterson's help, Andy Lang's feature may go down as one of the best-known pieces of anti-Mormon writing in the annals of Mopologetics.

Today, Dr. Peterson relates:
A philosophy professor of mine went back for some sort of academic conference at Georgetown University right about the time of the open house for the then new Washington DC Temple and returned with a copy of the Georgetown student newspaper. He gave it to me.

Unfortunately, Dr. Peterson doesn't disclose the name of his professor, nor does he tell us why his professor gave him the article. More importantly, why does Dr. Peterson recall a passage from a student article from the mid-1970s? Did the professor, in granting Dr. Peterson a copy of the newspaper, solemnly charge him to stand as a living witness against said article "at all times and in all things, and in all places that [he] may be in" (Mosiah 18:9), throughout the remainder of his days? Was 1974 Dr. Peterson's birth as a vocal Mopologist? (Dr. Midgley frequently mentions 1980 or thereabouts as the time he placed everything upon the altar and lifted Laban's macuahuitl to defend the Kingdom of Quetzelcoatl God.)

Dr. Peterson continues:
There was an exceedingly snarky article in it, in which several Georgetown grad students made merry over their visit to the soon-to-be dedicated temple. They must have been permitted to join in a VIP tour. Several passages linger in my memory from the article, but the one that’s relevant here concerns their shaking hands with Edward Drury, the newly-called president of the temple. He had, they said, been an executive with the Singer sewing machine company in his earlier life. With exquisite disdain, they wondered how many sewing machines his hands had made and sold.

Sigh. As documented above, Dr. Peterson doesn't remember Lang's observation correctly. Lang didn't wonder how many sewing machines Drury's hands had made and sold. Rather, Lang wrote: "We are ushered into the temple offices, where the temple president greets us with a smile that must have sold thousands of business machines." And Lang's comment was far from a gratuitous sneer. He related that "the temple president describes the church's missionary program in terms of his experience as the manager of a business machine sales company: You don't criticize other religions, but sell your own product on its own merits."

Lang used some snark (he observed, for example, that a mural inside the temple depicting Jesus standing in a cloud of glowing mist near the DC Temple presumably meant that the Second Coming would begin in Montgomery County, Maryland and commented that a funeral director would feel at home in the celestial room), criticized the church's commercial ethos, and viewed the temple's appearance and setting unfavorably in comparison to "the great cathedrals of the world." At the same time, Lang wrote with some flair, his renditions of church history were largely unobjectionable and neutral (he did say that the "church's president (and prophet) received a convenient revelation from God that plural marriage was no longer His will"), he carefully related the temple leaders' justifications for the pre-1978 temple/priesthood restriction (thereby performing a valuable service for modern historians of Mormonism and race), his discussion of the temple's saving ordinances was insightful, and, perhaps most importantly, he spelled "Latter-day Saints" correctly. Above all, it's not a piece worth citing and flogging nearly 45 years after it was published.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
_Tator
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Tator »

Just more proof the lazy serial plagiarizer has never had an original thought in his life.
a.k.a. Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
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2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Peterson, Lying To The Public Yet Once Again wrote:Quote:
There was an exceedingly snarky article in it, in which several Georgetown grad students made merry over their visit to the soon-to-be dedicated temple. They must have been permitted to join in a VIP tour. Several passages linger in my memory from the article, but the one that’s relevant here concerns their shaking hands with Edward Drury, the newly-called president of the temple. He had, they said, been an executive with the Singer sewing machine company in his earlier life. With exquisite disdain, they wondered how many sewing machines his hands had made and sold.


Nice find Tom. Peterson has once again been caught red-handed lying to his audience and also libeling the author of this 44 year article.

It's interesting that Peterson vividly remembers the "exquisite disdain" of the handshake, but as Tom clearly shows is a complete fabrication by Peterson.

I hope Peterson will immediately issue a retraction and a public apology to the family of the author for libeling and completely misrepresenting the article.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_kairos
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Re: DCP's First "MI" Article is a Flop

Post by _kairos »

In the article the Georgetown journalist described the FV and included that Joseph Smith said God? told him all other denominations and their creeds were abominations and further that the LDS church was the one true church. I assume the writer was a roman catholic and probably was enough up set that his church was declared an abomination by God so I would have expected that his description of the Temple was going to have a few digs about the architecture, the furnishings etc. Overall as said above he had a little fun with the Church beliefs and the temple- overall it certainly was not a hit piece!

k
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