Biblical figures who really existed ?

[Guest]

There's no extra-biblical evidence for Abraham or, If I recall correctly, any biblical character prior to the first millennium bce. There is extra-biblical evidence for several of the kings (Hezekiah is a good example).

There are some interesting inscriptions that may or may not be relevant to biblical history. The Merneptah Stele (late 13th century bce) refers to 'Israel', but as inscription describes Egypt utterly destroying Israel, it isn't clear that this is a reference to the Bible's nation of Israel. The Tel Dan Stele (late 9th century bce) mentions 'bytdwd', which may be translated as 'House of David'.

The Tel Dan Stele is the earliest mention of any Biblical person that I am aware of. It's controversial because the inscription is fragmentary and doesn't say anything about David as a person, just that a person named seemed to have established a dynasty. I think it's logical to assume that this David is the same person as described in the Bible, but doesn't in any way establish the accounts of him in 1 & 2 Samuel.

You start getting lots of external evidence for Biblical figures that are in 1 & 2 Kings, with kings from the Northern Kingdom appearing before kings from the Southern Kingdom in the archaeological record. The best chronology puts this stuff in the 9th century BC.

But apart from people you do also start to see evidence for events and things mentioned in the Bible from the 9th century BC forward. Several battles mentioned have been found in the archaeological layer. Probably the most spectacular was the rediscovery of Hezekiah's water tunnel which ran underneath the city of Jerusalem. This was mentioned as part of Hezekiah's war preparations.

[_Sethbag]

Deny it, I dare ya.

Single or double dog?

[_Nightlion]

Deny it, I dare ya.

Single or double dog?

I always like to double down. Which reminds me. Wendover has changed their table rules. All five casinos. You can only double down on ten and eleven. Not, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3 or 2.

You may be asking why is the prophet of The Apocalrock going to Wendover?
Good vibs, where everybody knows your name. (Pit bosses anyways.)
You need fellowship even as shallow as a high five across the crap table with a stranger.
Church was good for this as a kid and they got a lot more of my money too. But the vibes went South and even if they did know my name it was not with any genuine warmth. I honestly would often get a migraine headache Monday, or if was really bad, Tuesday, from tension with the animosity and sheer hatred I endured from EVERY DAMN Mormon congregation I lived in fifteen years before they finally exed me. Probably about ten of them or more. I was actually at times openly mocked by the ward "in-crowd" and in one Provo Student ward had two attempts to set me up to have an "accident". NS!

I was a constant advocate of the real Zion and the power thereof. (Just like here, sans The Apocalrock) Man they hated me!

[_sethpayne]

What about John the Baptist....didn't Josephus write about him?

PLENTY of evidence for John the Baptist. The Mandeans of Iraq still venerate him as their prophet/hero today.

[_sethpayne]

King David

Historians everywhere tremble in anticipation of your evidence.

Bret,

Didn't they find David's name on a carving in Israel a few years back?

Seth

ETA -- I really need to read the whole thread before commenting....

[_Bret Ripley]

Hey Bret, what's your opinion of the Tel Dan inscription?
(I just remember reading about it a year or so ago, but know nothing about it.)

Hi Madison. Before I answer, please understand that I am not a scholar. I'm more of a Farmer-Accountant (an obscure dual-class option) who happens to be interested in history. There are others here who are much more qualified to address your question than I am.

With that disclaimer out of the way: I think the Tel Dan Stele is intriguing. I think there's a good chance it refers to someone who identified themselves as a descendant of the David of the Bible, but it is not the only possibility. I would feel much more confident if the inscription read "byt dwd" rather than "bytdwd". The lack of a divide may or may not be significant, but it does raise questions.

It may be a reference to a descendant of King David. Heck, I want it to refer to a descendant of King David. My opinion is that the inscription is evidence (but not proof) of the historicity of the biblical David. The Tel Dan Stele is not enough to conclusively place David among the list of extra-biblically attested characters, but it is an intriguing piece of evidence.

[_Bret Ripley]

Most scholars don't doubt that John the Baptist passage in Josephus.

No, and I'm not aware of any good reason to doubt its authenticity. I only mentioned it out of a sense of fairness.

Josephus mentions Jesus twice. One of those passages is thought to have been expanded by later Christian scribes. This is the passage that goes by the name Testimonium Flavianum. Historical Jesus scholar John P. Meier probably makes the best case that the passage originally mentioned Jesus in a very matter of fact way, but that hints that portray Josephus as some sort of crypto-Christian are probably a later addition.

I've read a few articles about this, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote them. Thanks for mentioning Meier, I'll have to look up what he has to say on the matter.

[_Bret Ripley]

ETA -- I really need to read the whole thread before commenting....

Where's the fun in that?

[_ludwigm]

What about John the Baptist....didn't Josephus write about him?

PLENTY of evidence for John the Baptist. The Mandeans of Iraq still venerate him as their prophet/hero today.

Yes. For example, there are - in different shrines - three or more skulls of him, from his different ages.

[_moksha]

There are artifacts both carved and written on papyrus attesting to the existence of Anpu (Anubis in the Greek translation of his name) or, as he was known in Reformed Egyptian, Shulem. This stands as fairly strong confirmation of scripture.