Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthink

[_Sethbag]

Uh, the crucial difference here is that Gordon allegedly forwarded materials regarding Twede to Salt Lake City with the specific purpose of initiating church disciplinary action against him. I don't recall that any of us have played police detective and snitch in that way. So, fine. But then to deny it? OK, we understand that the apologists want to police the internet on behalf of the LDS Church, but they should at least own up to their online Danitism when they are put on the record admitting to it.

If Brother Gordon did exactly as you say, what is the problem? From his point of view, Brother Twede is engaged in endangering peoples' eternal salvation. From Gordon's perspective, if he doesn't act to defend the flock against this wolf, there are people who literally might not make it to the Celestial Kingdom who otherwise would. And to Gordon, he is his brother's keeper.

If you believed this, and you were in Gordon's shoes, don't you think you might look at the matter a little differently? We see it one way, but to Gordon, souls are on the line.

[_Gadianton]

I see what you're saying Seth, but that's like saying we have to understand the KGB is only does what it does for the good of the party. Notice the difference in ethic between the TBM boards and ours. in real life on ours is deleted immediately by Shades, no matter how unpopular the victim is. On the TBM board, the in real life of someone is leaked by a (purported) third party in order to bring the person down, the information stays up, and the apologists email around the links to each other. Someone knows someone else until the SCMC is involved and there's a court over it. So in the end, everyone has deniability, no one directly "contacted church headquarters," and I believe this. I do not think Scott is lying here at all. I do not think any of the apologists have the means to directly contact the SCMC. Well, i have some upcoming material on this, i've discovered some startling things.

If I found out in real life information a person online that was posted to bring the person down, even an "enemy", I wouldn't link to it and send it to anybody. That's like discovering someones social security number by accident, or picking up a credit card lying on the road and doing anything but forgetting about it, or doing one's part in destroying the information.

[_Kishkumen]

If Brother Gordon did exactly as you say, what is the problem? From his point of view, Brother Twede is engaged in endangering peoples' eternal salvation. From Gordon's perspective, if he doesn't act to defend the flock against this wolf, there are people who literally might not make it to the Celestial Kingdom who otherwise would. And to Gordon, he is his brother's keeper.

If you believed this, and you were in Gordon's shoes, don't you think you might look at the matter a little differently? We see it one way, but to Gordon, souls are on the line.

Hey, Seth-

Respectfully, I don't think you read me right. Look at this again, especially the bolded portion:

Uh, the crucial difference here is that Gordon allegedly forwarded materials regarding Twede to Salt Lake City with the specific purpose of initiating church disciplinary action against him. I don't recall that any of us have played police detective and snitch in that way. So, fine. But then to deny it? OK, we understand that the apologists want to police the internet on behalf of the LDS Church, but they should at least own up to their online Danitism when they are put on the record admitting to it.

I wouldn't say that I admire the snitching. I think FAIR's vendetta against MT is pretty clear, and that they were just salivating at the chance to hit one of its contributors. I trust LDS Truthseeker in the claim that the intention of a number of members who participate in the site is to get both sides of the story out there. So, there is this aggression in FAIR's people when it comes to the demand that their way of presenting Mormon history--always in the best possible light, regardless of the facts--drives them to attack anyone who does not toe that line.

So, there is that attack-dog culture at FAIR, a poorly trained attack dog. But I see that it is motivated in no small part by the sense that Mormons are persecuted and that critics tend to read things consistently in the worst possible light. I don't deny that there is truth to that. Furthermore, I really don't sympathize that much with Twede's methods. Twede is probably a decent enough fellow, but I think his initiative was poorly conceived.

What gets me, though, is that, as LDS Truthseeker confirms for us yet again (How many different ways does it have to be shown to us before we just accept it as true?) FAIR, like classic-FARMS, has an ingrained culture of dirty tricks, deception, and snitching that amounts, in my view, to "digging a pit for thy neighbor." Given the choice of engaging people personally, as the scriptures advocate, these guys choose to behave like a bargain-bin spy organization. It provokes feelings of pity and disgust.

So, yes, I get the fact that they believe they are motivated by all the purest intentions. But it is pretty clear that they are off the reservation as far as Christian behavior as described in the scriptures is concerned. Then to lie about it all in order to keep up the false appearance of righteousness only adds insult to injury. This is what makes people cynical.