Cicero wrote:Just wanted to say that this is a great thread (other than Why Me's creepy contributions).
SP, Zee and Ray in particular are bringing up a number of things I have been thinking about a lot lately.
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"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
So for these reasons I find it rather hollow of an explanation to say that ignorance of god's existence or not is necessary to free agency.
Well, I don't know. Your plan sounds like satan's plan. The fact is that the Bible is full of the need for faith. What to do? I think that your idea is problematic. I don't believe that very many would refuse a heavenly life for a life with the devil. Free agency would definitely be taken away. Now one can have the freedom to choose based on faith or lack of faith. You are exercising your free agency as I am.
I have a bowl of M&M's in my kitchen. I can see them, touch them, taste them. I know for certain they really exist.
Because I know for certain they really exist, I have no free will to decide whether or not to eat them.
But if I had no evidence that there were any M&M's around in my house, and just had faith they were there, then I could choose to eat all the M&M's I wanted.
This message is brought to you by Why Me. Ask about his highly-acclaimed I.Q. reduction program today!
brade wrote: God's clear appearance to Zee would take away Zee's freedom to believe God doesn't exist.
I am not sure it would take away that freedom, but if we assume it does, that would also mean that I am no longer free to believe the church is true.
How would God's appearance to you be different than a chair's appearance to you? When you are appeared to chairly do you find yourself grappling with whether to believe you've seen a chair?
But, anyway, yes, if God appeared to you and declared that Mormonism is true, then you'd no longer be free to believe it's true (in the sense that you could or could not). You'd just believe it's true.
brade wrote: How would God's appearance to you be different than a chair's appearance to you?
I am familiar with what society defines as a chair from birth until now. Can't say the same for God.
When you are appeared to chairly do you find yourself grappling with whether to believe you've seen a chair?
Under certain circumstances I might.
But, anyway, yes, if God appeared to you and declared that Mormonism is true, then you'd no longer be free to believe it's true (in the sense that you could or could not). You'd just believe it's true.
Are you sure. What if I am not sure about it, and think maybe it was an alien playing a trick on me. Are there not a few well educated people who know the evidence well enough but still choose to believe in a young earth or Global flood? This is why I am not sure one really loses this freedom.