Donny ducks and dives about Masonry and the Temple...

[_Drifting]

Can you also explain to me why Mormonism and Masonry are so connected? I’ll give some examples:

They both have temple ceremonies with secret names, aprons, penalties, grips, and tokens. There are also many Masonic markings outside (and inside from what I’ve been told by a dear friend who is no longer in the church.) Mormon temples:the square, the compass, the beehive, the astrological symbols, the all -seeing eye of occultism, and the upside down 5 pointed star. In fact, at the historic Nauvoo Hotel on April 20, 1974, Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr, the Association’s outgoing President, gave the traditional Presidential Address. Then, he began to read of his findings of the realtionship between Mormonism and Masonry. When he talked of the connections, he mentioned an Angel statue that was in the Visitor’s Center display in Nauvoo, Illinois. The VERY NEXT DAY that same angel statue was removed from the Visitors Center and seems to just have “vanished”. It’s well known also that Joseph Smith was once a Master Mason, and his brother Hyrum was a member of the Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112 in Palmyra, New York. Don’t you think it’s more than a bit of a coincidence that there are all these links between these two religions?

- ANONYMOUS


...


You concluded your email by saying, “Can you explain to me why Mormonism and Masonry are so connected?” You gave some examples by citing things from our temple ceremonies saying that Masonry has either like or similar names, signs and tokens. You wrote further about markings found in Masonic lodges and temples, which you have suggested are similar to markings found on our temples.

Please forgive me but you have no validity to your perspective since you’ve never been in any of our temples and you are offering me the “hearsay” of a “dear friend,” and then concluding with comments from Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr. in his April 1974 Presidential address (I presume you mean his outgoing Presidential address to Masonry), as though his opinions validate your perspective on the supposed similarities between Mormonism and Masonry. Dr. Durham has never attended any session or participated in any ordinance in a temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The sacredness of the temple ceremony prohibits me from being explanatory in this email. I believe that you have presented a thesis that is without factual back up as to things as they really are.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful than this.

- DONNY OSMOND

[_Drifting]

Perhaps Donny should have referred to FAIR for a better answer...

All Seeing Eye
The all seeing eye is indeed used by the Masons but also by many others. It is found on the revers of the Great Seal of the United States for example.
Anointing with oil
A very old practice found in Christian, Jewish and Islamic traditions. It is not, however,found in the Masonic tradition outside of the setting of a cornerstone with wine, oil and corn.
Apron
Both groups use them. The reference comes from the Bible; the symbology is different, however. The LDS use can be traced to Gen. 3:7 “And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.” The Masonic usage refers to aprons worn by stone masons in quarries. The aprons themselves differ. The Masonic one is white lamb’s skin; the LDS apron in green representing the fig leaves spoken of in the creation story.
Beehive
Found in Masonry but also found in the Book of Mormon. It is a nearly universal icon of industry.
Square and Compass
Found in both the LDS temple and among the Masons. Their symbolic use differs in each, however. The endowment does not use a physical square and compass as the Masons do.
Emblem of the clasped hands
A very old symbol of brotherly love that can be found on tombstones in New England. Found even on the graves of women who would not have been Masons.
Solemn Assembly in the Temple
This has no Masonic equivalent unless you consider a Grand Lodge meeting to be a Solemn Assembly (which Masons do not).
Five points of Fellowship
A Masonic tradition once used in the temple. Removed after 1990 as it had become meaningless to modern saints.
Special Garments applied to initiates
The temple garments worn by the Latter-day Saints the first time they attend the temple are the same as they use every day. Masons have special clothing, not undergarments, that symbolically show that they come to the lodge without any material possessions including clothing. Masons do not have symbolic clothing worn outside the lodge.
Garment Markings
Masonic ritualistic clothing have markings which are intended to provide a means of conducting the ritual. They do not carry symbolic meaning within the Masonic traditions.
Special handshakes
They are different both in form and meaning.
The phrase: “Holiness to the Lord”
The Masonic as well as the LDS usage of this phase comes from the Bible (Exodus 28:36 “And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.”)
Moon symbol
Mankind have been using the symbols of the heavens long before the establishment of Masons.
New Name given
Practice is found in scripture (Saul becomes Paul, for example). The Masonic as well as LDS practice comes from the Bible.
Special Prayer circle
No such practice in Masonry.
Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood
Not found in Masonry.
Blood/death oaths of secrecy with morbid gestures and words describing penalties agreed to if secrets are revealed.
Mormons going through the temple post-1990 may not be familiar with these. See the earlier discussion of the penalties.
Location (possession of) Throne of the “Holy of Holies”
Masons make no claim to possession of such. Neither do Latter-day Saints. Both groups make a reference to in in connection to the Temple of Solomon.
Star symbols, Sun symbols
See Moon symbols.
Tabernacles, Temples
In both cases clearly a reference to the Bible usage.

http://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask ... ple-ritual

[_Madison54]

Please forgive me but you have no validity to your perspective since you’ve never been in any of our temples and you are offering me the “hearsay” of a “dear friend,” and then concluding with comments from Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr. in his April 1974 Presidential address (I presume you mean his outgoing Presidential address to Masonry), as though his opinions validate your perspective on the supposed similarities between Mormonism and Masonry. Dr. Durham has never attended any session or participated in any ordinance in a temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- DONNY OSMOND

Well, that's not true. Dr. Durham has most certainly attended and participated in temple ordinances:

Reed Connell Durham, Jr. (born 1930) is a historian of the Latter Day Saint movement and former director of the Institute of Religion in Salt Lake City, Utah for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Durham is remembered for a controversial speech given in 1974 about Freemasonry and the Latter Day Saint movement.
...
As a young man, Reed Jr. served as an LDS missionary for two years.
...
By 1991 Durham had been living in Logan, Utah where he still taught for CES. In 1995 he taught at BYU's travel study program in Nauvoo, Illinois, and he was a service missionary at Brigham Young University–Hawaii from 1996 to 1999.

[_Nomomo]

Donny: Doh!

[_The Mighty Builder]

Can you also explain to me why Mormonism and Masonry are so connected? I’ll give some examples:

They both have temple ceremonies with secret names, aprons, penalties, grips, and tokens. There are also many Masonic markings outside (and inside from what I’ve been told by a dear friend who is no longer in the church.) Mormon temples:the square, the compass, the beehive, the astrological symbols, the all -seeing eye of occultism, and the upside down 5 pointed star. In fact, at the historic Nauvoo Hotel on April 20, 1974, Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr, the Association’s outgoing President, gave the traditional Presidential Address. Then, he began to read of his findings of the realtionship between Mormonism and Masonry. When he talked of the connections, he mentioned an Angel statue that was in the Visitor’s Center display in Nauvoo, Illinois. The VERY NEXT DAY that same angel statue was removed from the Visitors Center and seems to just have “vanished”. It’s well known also that Joseph Smith was once a Master Mason, and his brother Hyrum was a member of the Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112 in Palmyra, New York. Don’t you think it’s more than a bit of a coincidence that there are all these links between these two religions?

- ANONYMOUS


...


You concluded your email by saying, “Can you explain to me why Mormonism and Masonry are so connected?” You gave some examples by citing things from our temple ceremonies saying that Masonry has either like or similar names, signs and tokens. You wrote further about markings found in Masonic lodges and temples, which you have suggested are similar to markings found on our temples.

Please forgive me but you have no validity to your perspective since you’ve never been in any of our temples and you are offering me the “hearsay” of a “dear friend,” and then concluding with comments from Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr. in his April 1974 Presidential address (I presume you mean his outgoing Presidential address to Masonry), as though his opinions validate your perspective on the supposed similarities between Mormonism and Masonry. Dr. Durham has never attended any session or participated in any ordinance in a temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The sacredness of the temple ceremony prohibits me from being explanatory in this email. I believe that you have presented a thesis that is without factual back up as to things as they really are.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful than this.

- DONNY OSMOND

Really. That's how Donny Osmond corresponds? Sound more like an apologist or Mormon church representative

[_Sethbag]

It sounds to me more like Donny just hasn't got a clue what the person is talking about, and is trying to just end the interaction with some hand-waving and blowing a little smoke.

Not like I would have expected much more. Donny comes across as a more famous version of a bog-standard Mormon, most of whom wouldn't have had a clue how to respond to this.

[_hobo1512]

I met Donny, and the whole family back in the 70's, and he's just as goofy now as he was back then. Some things just never change.

[_sock puppet]

I find the whole of Donny's dipping the big toe on his left foot into the tepid pool of mopologetics rather amusing.

It might be a step for Donny towards apostasy. Damn ability to think and reason, anyway.

[_zeezrom]

Wow, can I talk to Donny too? He was my hero in the 80's.

[_son of Ishmael]

I find the whole of Donny's dipping the big toe on his left foot into the tepid pool of mopologetics rather amusing.

It might be a step for Donny towards apostasy. Damn ability to think and reason, anyway.

I was thinking the same thing. He better be careful or he might open a door that leads to apostasy.

Open the door Donny, open the door...