COB/Corporate Mormonism

[_why me]

I agree with you there, why me, it's just another church. Investments, bureaucracy, and the like.

We can all say that it is problematic. I would agree with this. But it affects most churches. Because the market has made inroads into every facet of life, churches cannot avoid it if they want to have profitable returns. The LDS church is certainly not bankrupt and it seems to be in a healthy state, considering the mess that the world has been in for the last few years.

And to give the poor a blank check of billions of dollars would be like peeing in the wind. The Mall was a good investment now and in the future. People need a place to shop and eat...and america does have a mall culture where people come together for a social activity.

[_why me]

So City Creek is a $5 billion attempt to 'revitalise' a small corner of downtown Salt Lake City "rather than to make money..."
Thank you 'why me' for reinforcing the point.

It was both. It was a good investment near the temple. And it provides the people a place to come together for a mutual activity.

[_Yoda]

Religion is at its best at the retail level.

I grew up from age 3 until going off to college at age 18, those 15 years, in one and the same Mormon ward. It was a warm social environment. Most everyone was second or third generation in the community that went from two to three wards in those 15 years.

GC weekends were weekends 'off'. They were perhaps two of the three times a year we got KFC chicken at our house. We'd do yard work. During conference sessions, only people that were over 55 were tuned in watching on TV, and it was sort of on in the background for most of them.

You hated being assigned to the Church magazine drive. Hardly anyone subscribed. So you'd come across as a nag.

There were the typical Sunday meetings, but the real focus of the ward was on the auxiliaries and during the week functions. There was always something being planned.

Most of the Primary and Sunday School, even Aaronic Priesthood, classes were taught 'off' manual, not following it. I recall teachers having to explain a time or two when discussion would challenge a point, "that's what it says here in the manual." That would usually allow the teacher then to continue on.

On the rare occasion I went to a different ward, particularly if it was not the other one or two wards in our little hamlet, there would be differences. The bigger the city it was in, the more that the other ward seemed cold, officious in how meetings were conducted, and the more homogenous the way people dressed and looked as compared to our rural ward.

This began changing in the 1970s. COB began creeping in slowly. Then, at 18, off to BYU I went. That was a cultural shock dose of COB Mormonism. A mission was like the Empire Strikes Hard compared to Mayberry USA Mormonism I had experienced growing up. Tolerance of others, gentle theology (with its quirks) was giving way to rigidity, and focus on numbers.

I know many here bristle when I use the term "LDS Inc", but that captures for me so much of what has gone wrong with Mormonism in the last 40 years. The COB has sent a cookie-cutter out to all SPs and bishops, hoping to create little Mormon units. The inviting, retail level Mormonism I knew growing up has been snuffed out by the corporate version.

LDS Inc. Pfft.

I think that you and I grew up in the same Ward.

[Guest]

So City Creek is a $5 billion attempt to 'revitalise' a small corner of downtown Salt Lake City "rather than to make money..."
Thank you 'why me' for reinforcing the point.

It was both. It was a good investment near the temple. And it provides the people a place to come together for a mutual activity.

CFR CFR CFR,

McMullin (Presiding Bishopric) has already stated that on the basis of investment the project didn't make financial sense.

McMullin explains that City Creek exists to combat urban blight, not to fill church coffers. “Will there be a return?” he asks rhetorically. “Yes, but so modest that you would never have made such an investment—the real return comes in folks moving back downtown and the revitalization of businesses.” Pausing briefly, he adds with deliberation, “It’s for furthering the aim of the church to make, if you will, bad men good, and good men better.”

(emphasis mine)
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... make-money

So what do you know about City Creek's financial proposition that he doesn't????

Mind you, McMullin is slippery when it comes to facts and figures...

McMullin said the LDS Church has "two or three or four for-profit entities under the Presiding Bishopric," and names DMC, AgReserves and Suburban Land Reserve. He says DMC has about "2,000 to 3,000 employees." In late May, he confirmed the Hoover’s estimate that DMC has annual revenue of about $1.2 billion. A church spokesman later said McMullin retracted his estimate, saying that $1.2 billion is "vastly overstated." He didn’t offer a new estimate.

(emphasis mine)
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54478 ... csp?page=2


And can someone, anyone, explain how City Creek helps to "make bad men good, and good men better"?

As for providing a place for people to come together for 'mutual activity'.
You mean, spending money on upmarket non dress standards fashion items or coffee and alcohol, right? (As per the posters advertising City Creek).

As far as shopping outlets were concerned, they already existed but Hinckley didn't think it was upmarket enough.

[_Kishkumen]

I know many here bristle when I use the term "LDS Inc", but that captures for me so much of what has gone wrong with Mormonism in the last 40 years. The COB has sent a cookie-cutter out to all SPs and bishops, hoping to create little Mormon units. The inviting, retail level Mormonism I knew growing up has been snuffed out by the corporate version.

LDS Inc. Pfft.

There are a number of active LDS people who agree.

[_DrW]

I know many here bristle when I use the term "LDS Inc", but that captures for me so much of what has gone wrong with Mormonism in the last 40 years. The COB has sent a cookie-cutter out to all SPs and bishops, hoping to create little Mormon units. The inviting, retail level Mormonism I knew growing up has been snuffed out by the corporate version.

LDS Inc. Pfft.

I grew up in a farming ward outside of Utah / Idaho. We met in member's homes for several years, and finally grew in number until we were able to build a chapel out of government surplus Army barracks that were hauled to the site by a house moving company. Everyone pitched in and we put together a very usable chapel out of these buildings.

My Dad and I did most of the electrical wiring. The Mormon kids were the envy of the school age community. We played softball and basketball, built swimming pools in the irrigation sumps, had the best dances, and (I claim) the nicest girls. And we helped one another out; changing sprinklers, fixing cars, doing homework, you name it.

That Church is gone now. My older children may have experienced it for a few years, I don't know. The younger ones never did. The grandkids don't have a chance.

Sad.

[_Chap]

I know many here bristle when I use the term "LDS Inc", but that captures for me so much of what has gone wrong with Mormonism in the last 40 years. The COB has sent a cookie-cutter out to all SPs and bishops, hoping to create little Mormon units. The inviting, retail level Mormonism I knew growing up has been snuffed out by the corporate version.

LDS Inc. Pfft.

I grew up in a farming ward outside of Utah / Idaho. We met in member's homes for several years, and finally grew in number until we were able to build a chapel out of government surplus Army barracks that were hauled to the site by a house moving company. Everyone pitched in and we put together a very usable chapel out of these buildings.

My Dad and I did most of the electrical wiring. The Mormon kids were the envy of the school age community. We played softball and basketball, built swimming pools in the irrigation sumps, had the best dances, and (I claim) the nicest girls. And we helped one another out; changing sprinklers, fixing cars, doing homework, you name it.

That Church is gone now. My older children may have experienced it for a few years, I don't know. The younger ones never did. The grandkids don't have a chance.

Sad.

Almost thou persuadest me to have been a Mormon ...

[_zeezrom]

I grew up in a ward full of successful businessmen, some of whom serve(d) as GAs. The whole business class in LDS discipleship concept truly bothered me from a young age.

My fav song in high school was Cat Stevens saying he wanted to live in a wigwam. Something my church leaders detested even to think about.

[_Kishkumen]

I grew up in a ward full of successful businessmen, some of whom serve(d) as GAs. The whole business class in LDS discipleship concept truly bothered me from a young age.

My fav song in high school was Cat Stevens saying he wanted to live in a wigwam. Something my church leaders detested even to think about.

While I am sympathetic to this sentiment about not identifying with the priestly-business class of Mormons, zeez, do you think they literally despised the idea of yearning for a simpler, humbler life?

[_zeezrom]

While I am sympathetic to this sentiment about not identifying with the priestly-business class of Mormons, zeez, do you think they literally despised the idea of yearning for a simpler, humbler life?

Maybe they did but their actions were not helping them get it. Maybe they didn't have much of a choice, given pressures exerted on them. I suppose the LDS church is a product of the land it grew up in.